Tarmac vs Venge for a tall guy

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Miles253
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:25 pm
You're the same height as me and a bit lighter. My everyday ride is a size L Canyon Aeroad. Test rode a size 58 S-Works Tarmac decked out with Red AXS, CLX50s and their fantastic Turbo cottons.

Compared to the aero bike (which I have to say isn't uncomfortable per se more than most stiff race bikes) the Tarmac felt both more rigid in power transfer, yet more smooth over road texture. Plus it has the always enjoyable balance of speedy reactions and stability of the good old Tarmac geometry.

I also like that the front end has no integrated cables, which makes for easier maintenance, component swapping and assembly/disassembly for travel.

Were it not for the outreageous pricing, that'd be my do-it-all bike, notwithstanding the handful of watts given up at 40 km/h and above.

The ride quality more than makes up for the tiny performance difference in my view.
That’s really good feedback, how do you get away with riding a 58 though at your height? Particularly flexible, long arms etc?

I’ve got in touch with Bespoke in London to see if they have any 58/61 sized demos in the Tarmac , Venge and Roubaix to see what I can make work. The only thing you can all agree on is that a test ride is imperative.
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

by Weenie


Stueys
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

Miles253 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:38 am
Bordcla wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:25 pm
You're the same height as me and a bit lighter. My everyday ride is a size L Canyon Aeroad. Test rode a size 58 S-Works Tarmac decked out with Red AXS, CLX50s and their fantastic Turbo cottons.

Compared to the aero bike (which I have to say isn't uncomfortable per se more than most stiff race bikes) the Tarmac felt both more rigid in power transfer, yet more smooth over road texture. Plus it has the always enjoyable balance of speedy reactions and stability of the good old Tarmac geometry.

I also like that the front end has no integrated cables, which makes for easier maintenance, component swapping and assembly/disassembly for travel.

Were it not for the outreageous pricing, that'd be my do-it-all bike, notwithstanding the handful of watts given up at 40 km/h and above.

The ride quality more than makes up for the tiny performance difference in my view.
That’s really good feedback, how do you get away with riding a 58 though at your height? Particularly flexible, long arms etc?

I’ve got in touch with Bespoke in London to see if they have any 58/61 sized demos in the Tarmac , Venge and Roubaix to see what I can make work. The only thing you can all agree on is that a test ride is imperative.
Try Sigma, think they are probably the largest Spesh dealer in London. And if you find a demo Venge in 58 then yell, I’d be interested ;-)

blehargh
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:08 pm

by blehargh

Miles253 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:38 am
Bordcla wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:25 pm
You're the same height as me and a bit lighter. My everyday ride is a size L Canyon Aeroad. Test rode a size 58 S-Works Tarmac decked out with Red AXS, CLX50s and their fantastic Turbo cottons.

Compared to the aero bike (which I have to say isn't uncomfortable per se more than most stiff race bikes) the Tarmac felt both more rigid in power transfer, yet more smooth over road texture. Plus it has the always enjoyable balance of speedy reactions and stability of the good old Tarmac geometry.

I also like that the front end has no integrated cables, which makes for easier maintenance, component swapping and assembly/disassembly for travel.

Were it not for the outreageous pricing, that'd be my do-it-all bike, notwithstanding the handful of watts given up at 40 km/h and above.

The ride quality more than makes up for the tiny performance difference in my view.
That’s really good feedback, how do you get away with riding a 58 though at your height? Particularly flexible, long arms etc?

I’ve got in touch with Bespoke in London to see if they have any 58/61 sized demos in the Tarmac , Venge and Roubaix to see what I can make work. The only thing you can all agree on is that a test ride is imperative.
Well - it doesn’t seem like your choice is gonna be made on an Internet forum. :) we gave you all the differences we could think of - weight, aero, looks, comfort, fit, price. None of those seemed to swing you. So..... :)

Test ride time! Good luck finding the bikes!

anykarthik
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 pm

by anykarthik

Why does this get discussed on every tarmac/venge thread?

The geometries are *identical*. Down to the degree and millimeter. The difference in stack/reach is from the venge having room for it's taller headset spacer. Once the bike is built up, the handlebar is in exactly the same spot. Down to the millimeter.

To double check, you can confirm that the wheelbase, ht/St angles, bb drop, can length, front center, fork take, trail etc are all identical.

So any commentary in a huge difference in handling is based in complete bullshit.

Any difference there will only come down to component choice and any slight difference in frame compliance. Not angles and tube lengths. And these differences are going to be slight and really only even noticeable on rough corners.

The choice between the two comes down to weight vs aero, cost, comfort and aesthetics


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Calnago
Posts: 8428
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Theoretically, with identical geometries they should at least handle the same. But they can feel very different depending on the tube shapes, layups, compliance (especially vertical), how they react to crosswinds etc. etc. all of which can definitely affect how a bike handles.
For instance, a Trek Madone has identical H1 geometry to the Emonda, and even my Koppenberg. I’ve ridden all three of these bikes and I can most definitely feel the difference between them. A bike can be very solid and stiff due to the layup (Koppenberg, albeit with isospeed), or it can be built extremely lightweight and risk handling like a noodle in comparison (Emonda SLR). Or, in the case of the Madone, it can be vertically harsh, even with the isospeed, just due to the more aero tube shapes. I guarantee that if I could ride blindfolded and these three bikes were setup up identically with the exact same fit and components and tires etc, that I would be able to tell you which was which before the end of the block.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

anykarthik
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 pm

by anykarthik

I generally think of those differences (which are of course present) as ride quality differences and not handling differences (crosswinds aside). Especially with the current gen venge being far less extreme compared to the vias

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Calnago
Posts: 8428
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I’m all about “ride quality”. And how a frame, or wheels for that matter, handle in crosswinds is not soemthing I think you can just “set aside”. It’s all part of it. If it wasn’t then there’d be absolutely zero need for more than one frame.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

LBoogie28
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:17 am

by LBoogie28

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:55 am
welchy wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 am
I'm 6ft 2" and 189CM and speaking from experience of owning both the Venge was good for one thing, going fast on flat straights. Absolutely god awful at the rest, my tarmac was so so so much better, on descents, climbs, feel wise, general handling.

Obviously the Venge isn't a bad bike, don't get me wrong. But a classic handling bike is the way forward.. IMO. Which of course, is my own opinion so others may think differently.

You own a current Venge and a current Tarmac?
I do, and would recommend the tarmac (in all honesty). Bought the venge first to crit race and loved the feel/performance. Replaced my “allrounder” with an sl6 fairly recently and was struck by how much more livelier, reactive, and smoother riding it is over the venge. Don’t get me wrong, the venge is great, but th tarmac does it for me that much more. I ride 54 cm frames though, so the differences between the two might be more pronounced at that sizing.

Bordcla
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

LBoogie28 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:40 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:55 am
welchy wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 am
I'm 6ft 2" and 189CM and speaking from experience of owning both the Venge was good for one thing, going fast on flat straights. Absolutely god awful at the rest, my tarmac was so so so much better, on descents, climbs, feel wise, general handling.

Obviously the Venge isn't a bad bike, don't get me wrong. But a classic handling bike is the way forward.. IMO. Which of course, is my own opinion so others may think differently.

You own a current Venge and a current Tarmac?
I do, and would recommend the tarmac (in all honesty). Bought the venge first to crit race and loved the feel/performance. Replaced my “allrounder” with an sl6 fairly recently and was struck by how much more livelier, reactive, and smoother riding it is over the venge. Don’t get me wrong, the venge is great, but th tarmac does it for me that much more. I ride 54 cm frames though, so the differences between the two might be more pronounced at that sizing.
"Livelier" is also the adjective I'd emphasize to describe the difference between the Tarmac SL6 and my Aeroad.

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3500
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

Miles - I think I know you, and you know me. Why don't you borrow both from Specialized to demo? PM me if you need help wih this.
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

ichobi
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Tried both. Owned the Tarmac. I just have no need to ride fast all the time. The tarmac is more nimble and agile (weight, tube shape) and more comfortable. The tube shape also seems more proportional than the venge. I used to ride aero bike for many years (canyon aeroad, which is also one of the most comfortable aerobike in the market) but I found the Tarmac versatility more enjoyable.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Miles253
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

Hi All,

I had a really good bike fit today. I've been advised to stick to the 58cm, due to reach being my limiting factor. Hence I'm guessing the difference between the two frames become more apparent again.

Still, as reach is my kryptonite, the Venge is that much longer, I think I'm going Tarmac
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

Boshk
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

LBoogie28 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:40 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:55 am
welchy wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 am
I'm 6ft 2" and 189CM and speaking from experience of owning both the Venge was good for one thing, going fast on flat straights. Absolutely god awful at the rest, my tarmac was so so so much better, on descents, climbs, feel wise, general handling.

Obviously the Venge isn't a bad bike, don't get me wrong. But a classic handling bike is the way forward.. IMO. Which of course, is my own opinion so others may think differently.

You own a current Venge and a current Tarmac?
I do, and would recommend the tarmac (in all honesty). Bought the venge first to crit race and loved the feel/performance. Replaced my “allrounder” with an sl6 fairly recently and was struck by how much more livelier, reactive, and smoother riding it is over the venge. Don’t get me wrong, the venge is great, but th tarmac does it for me that much more. I ride 54 cm frames though, so the differences between the two might be more pronounced at that sizing.
How tall are you?
I'm planning on getting a 54 tarmac. According to sizing chart, I should be 52 or 54.
The extra stack from the 54 may make it more upright/comfortable when compared to 52?

robeambro
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Boshk wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:11 pm
LBoogie28 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:40 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:55 am
welchy wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 am
I'm 6ft 2" and 189CM and speaking from experience of owning both the Venge was good for one thing, going fast on flat straights. Absolutely god awful at the rest, my tarmac was so so so much better, on descents, climbs, feel wise, general handling.

Obviously the Venge isn't a bad bike, don't get me wrong. But a classic handling bike is the way forward.. IMO. Which of course, is my own opinion so others may think differently.

You own a current Venge and a current Tarmac?
I do, and would recommend the tarmac (in all honesty). Bought the venge first to crit race and loved the feel/performance. Replaced my “allrounder” with an sl6 fairly recently and was struck by how much more livelier, reactive, and smoother riding it is over the venge. Don’t get me wrong, the venge is great, but th tarmac does it for me that much more. I ride 54 cm frames though, so the differences between the two might be more pronounced at that sizing.
How tall are you?
I'm planning on getting a 54 tarmac. According to sizing chart, I should be 52 or 54.
The extra stack from the 54 may make it more upright/comfortable when compared to 52?
The answer to this question is no, since in theory you should not change your position on the bike depending on what size it is, on a 52 you'd just be using more spacers to achieve the same total stack.

by Weenie


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