Tarmac vs Venge for a tall guy

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Miles253
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

All interesting replies everybody so thank you very much.

Put it this way,

- 2020 colours I know are going to be very similar between the Venge and Tarmac.
- I like the look of both bikes so I cannot choose on that.
- Yes I ride bad roads, both bikes can take big rubber though, which will take most of the sting out of whichever bike and certainly negate any gain the Tarmac has.
- I just don't like the look of the Roubaix so much, so I wouldn't choose that unless a test ride was revolutionary from a ride perspective
- I'm 28 years old and 75 kilos, so not super heavy/ super light. I do tend to struggle with neck pain (see my other thread) but I still don't know if this is down to geometry or a physical problem as I have neck pain on a day-to-day basis. Plus the Venge is only a few mm lower than the Tarmac
- I'm not racing but I do like to ride fast in quick chain gangs regularly, but it's still only part of my riding.
- I have considered lowering the gap in aerodynamics with an aero bar, presumably, this isn't going to be a huge saving though as the Venge would also have an aero bar.

Thanks for your input everyone, I look forward to hearing more.
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

by Weenie


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NJCyclist
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by NJCyclist

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:13 am
You’re riding bad roads. You’re not racing. Is one easier to maintain than the other (less integration). I’d get the Tarmac based on practical use alone, but ultimately I’d get the one I like the looks of the most. They’re both disc, right. Get the color you want first and foremost. You’ll be happiest that way. You can see and appreciate that.
I'm with Calnago on this. Go with the one that's going to give you more ride comfort. I've found the Tarmac more compliant than the Venge. That being said, as a bigger guy, I find tires make the biggest difference - I run tubeless 28s at ~65psi and it's seemingly been faster and more comfortable that when I ran 25s at higher psi.

Finally, looking at the geometry of the 61 Tarmac and Venge, it looks like the Venge has 10mm less stack. Unless you're able to ride it slammed, that means more spacers on the Venge, which is something that you might care about from an aesthetic perspective.
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robeambro
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Miles253 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:39 pm
All interesting replies everybody so thank you very much.

Put it this way,

- 2020 colours I know are going to be very similar between the Venge and Tarmac.
- I like the look of both bikes so I cannot choose on that.
- Yes I ride bad roads, both bikes can take big rubber though, which will take most of the sting out of whichever bike and certainly negate any gain the Tarmac has.
- I just don't like the look of the Roubaix so much, so I wouldn't choose that unless a test ride was revolutionary from a ride perspective
- I'm 28 years old and 75 kilos, so not super heavy/ super light. I do tend to struggle with neck pain (see my other thread) but I still don't know if this is down to geometry or a physical problem as I have neck pain on a day-to-day basis. Plus the Venge is only a few mm lower than the Tarmac
- I'm not racing but I do like to ride fast in quick chain gangs regularly, but it's still only part of my riding.
- I have considered lowering the gap in aerodynamics with an aero bar, presumably, this isn't going to be a huge saving though as the Venge would also have an aero bar.

Thanks for your input everyone, I look forward to hearing more.
Geometry is the same for both bikes at least in average sizes - those millimetres you quote do not take into account that the headset cap for the Venge is taller and mandatory, so stack-wise they are the same. But it may not be for taller sizes.

Comfort-wise, they will be very similar. Arguably the Tarmac will be somewhat more comfortable all else equal (so for the same tyre width and pressure).

Performance-wise, they will be very similar. Arguably, the Venge could have a slight edge due to aero benefits all else equal (so for the same components such as wheels and handlebars).

Looks-wise, they're both quite modern, so arguably they will "age" similarly.

Ultimately, you are comparing two very, very similar bikes. The good thing is that, provided geometry fits you, you can't go wrong with either.
If you really can't decide based on aesthetics, I don't think anybody can really come up with a definitive reason why you should pick one or the other.

jfranci3
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by jfranci3

Tour has the Venge disc at 209watts and 221watts on the same wheels and such. The Tarmac had round bars vs the Venges aero setup. That's about 5watts. You're going to put water bottles on both and the Venge will be more impacted by this, thats another 5watts.
https://www.tour-magazin.de/uploads/tx_ ... cb736.jpeg
https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 231#anchor

The venge will sail better in crosswinds, that's about the only real advantage.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Miles253 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:39 pm
All interesting replies everybody so thank you very much.

Put it this way,

- 2020 colours I know are going to be very similar between the Venge and Tarmac.
How do you know this... dealers do not even know the 2020 colors for either model yet. I've seen a few spy shots showing two Tarmac colorways from a dealer event in Taiwan, but no way to know what colors will be available to which region yet.

Personally, I think you're splitting hairs between the two bikes... if you like going uphill, I'd go for the Tarmac. If you like smashing it on the flats, I'd go Venge. I had a 2015 Venge Pro that I rode for 4 years and now have a 2017 S-Works Tarmac SL5. I like both bikes but I'd choose the Tarmac hands down over the Venge.

Pierre86
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 3:53 pm

by Pierre86

Get the Venge OP
jfranci3 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:24 pm
You're going to put water bottles on both and the Venge will be more impacted by this, thats another 5watts.
Aerobikes tend to shield the bottles quite well, I'd argue the Tarmac would be impacted more by the addition of bidons
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welchy
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

To all of the above posts, I’ve had first gen Venge and second gen Venge (just for a very short period as it was quite simply shocking).

Good luck with them, obviously those who have them may enjoy them or claim they do. But they probably haven’t got another bike in the arsenal to directly compare it to ride by ride. Again, it’s my opinion.

I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4005
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Such a definitive statement on a bike you haven’t ridden. Let’s not make assumptions about the bikes other people own when you have no real saddle time on the bikes in question and spoke as if you owned them.

Miles should probably just go out and test both...it’ll be really easy as he won’t even have to visit more than one shop, and he can immediately hop off the first bike onto the second.

welchy
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:03 am
Such a definitive statement on a bike you haven’t ridden. Let’s not make assumptions about the bikes other people own when you have no real saddle time on the bikes in question and spoke as if you owned them.

Miles should probably just go out and test both...it’ll be really easy as he won’t even have to visit more than one shop, and he can immediately hop off the first bike onto the second.
I know it's definitive, because I'm sure of my statement. I doubt Spesh radically have changed anything, of course I will most likely be wrong. But I am trying to pass on the error of my previous ways and push somebody towards riding a more comfortable bike, getting more pleasure from the ride etc etc. Surely all these frame aero gains can be similarly matched if not bettered by a more aero position on a comfortable bike with a good helmet etc. I'm not doubting anybodys view on the Venge, I'm sure if they love it they are right. But in my view, which the OP asked for. Both similar ages and heights between us, albeit I am 15kg heavier, the tarmac would always be my choice. And will age better. So, thats my view, it's not the answer, it is just my view.

Miles253
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

robeambro wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:06 pm
Miles253 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:39 pm
All interesting replies everybody so thank you very much.

Put it this way,

- 2020 colours I know are going to be very similar between the Venge and Tarmac.
- I like the look of both bikes so I cannot choose on that.
- Yes I ride bad roads, both bikes can take big rubber though, which will take most of the sting out of whichever bike and certainly negate any gain the Tarmac has.
- I just don't like the look of the Roubaix so much, so I wouldn't choose that unless a test ride was revolutionary from a ride perspective
- I'm 28 years old and 75 kilos, so not super heavy/ super light. I do tend to struggle with neck pain (see my other thread) but I still don't know if this is down to geometry or a physical problem as I have neck pain on a day-to-day basis. Plus the Venge is only a few mm lower than the Tarmac
- I'm not racing but I do like to ride fast in quick chain gangs regularly, but it's still only part of my riding.
- I have considered lowering the gap in aerodynamics with an aero bar, presumably, this isn't going to be a huge saving though as the Venge would also have an aero bar.

Thanks for your input everyone, I look forward to hearing more.
Geometry is the same for both bikes at least in average sizes - those millimetres you quote do not take into account that the headset cap for the Venge is taller and mandatory, so stack-wise they are the same. But it may not be for taller sizes.

Comfort-wise, they will be very similar. Arguably the Tarmac will be somewhat more comfortable all else equal (so for the same tyre width and pressure).

Performance-wise, they will be very similar. Arguably, the Venge could have a slight edge due to aero benefits all else equal (so for the same components such as wheels and handlebars).

Looks-wise, they're both quite modern, so arguably they will "age" similarly.

Ultimately, you are comparing two very, very similar bikes. The good thing is that, provided geometry fits you, you can't go wrong with either.
If you really can't decide based on aesthetics, I don't think anybody can really come up with a definitive reason why you should pick one or the other.
I had much the same conversation with a chap from Gran Fondo magazine who has tested both. A slight increase in compliance for the Tarmac, but nothing that can't be negated by tyres.

My ideal would be to test ride both, though at this time of year that's rather difficult, as aesthetically I like both. That being said, the Venge does have an integrated front end which is prettier than the Tarmac's exposed cables. That's perhaps the only real differentiator.

I take it that there isn't anyone here who has ridden both?
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

blehargh
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:08 pm

by blehargh

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:13 am
You’re riding bad roads. You’re not racing. Is one easier to maintain than the other (less integration). I’d get the Tarmac based on practical use alone, but ultimately I’d get the one I like the looks of the most. They’re both disc, right. Get the color you want first and foremost. You’ll be happiest that way. You can see and appreciate that.
I've ridden both, but guessing there are folks out there that own both - I'm pretty much in line with Calnago here - the bad roads make me lean towards the Tarmac for you. Yes, tires can help - but the rear end of Tarmac is noticably mushier than the Venge. It's a more comfortable ride. <- (I have to guess the larger sizes are more compliant in general (since you're using the same seatpost across sizes and have longer levels to apply forces)

Also, not to be discounted - the same Tarmac is about $1.5k cheaper than a Venge. Doesn't sound like you're hurting there, but that's not nothing.

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otoman
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by otoman

I agree with Tobin in the sense that you need to test ride them.

I am your same height, 6’3”. I had a Gen 1 Venge and loved the handling. I have also had two Tarmacs over the past few years (SL3 and SL5) and hated them both. The handling for me had this weird on/off switch - at first, slow and pushing the thing into corners until it changed character beyond a certain lean and got very fast handling. Weird! It was more exaggerated on the SL5. The Venge was very neutral but quick in corners... predictable and fast.

More relevant to your question: Spesh always said the geometry was the same but you could put the bikes side by side and see the differences in where the BB was located, BB drop, reach etc. Buncha BS marketing crap as usual from the big S. And don’t fall for the BS “Rider First” engineering where they claim to tune the 60cm ride the same as the 48cm. Who cares?!? All we care is that the damn thing handles well, not that it handles like your sister’s smaller bike.

All that to say is just test them both and go with what feels right. You’ll know.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

Miles253
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

I'm talking to a few bike shops to see how has demos at this time of year, its tough to find one in a big size to be honest.

Interesting video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSuH8q3 ... .be&t=260s that I saw in another thread.
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

Bordcla
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

You're the same height as me and a bit lighter. My everyday ride is a size L Canyon Aeroad. Test rode a size 58 S-Works Tarmac decked out with Red AXS, CLX50s and their fantastic Turbo cottons.

Compared to the aero bike (which I have to say isn't uncomfortable per se more than most stiff race bikes) the Tarmac felt both more rigid in power transfer, yet more smooth over road texture. Plus it has the always enjoyable balance of speedy reactions and stability of the good old Tarmac geometry.

I also like that the front end has no integrated cables, which makes for easier maintenance, component swapping and assembly/disassembly for travel.

Were it not for the outreageous pricing, that'd be my do-it-all bike, notwithstanding the handful of watts given up at 40 km/h and above.

The ride quality more than makes up for the tiny performance difference in my view.

blehargh
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:08 pm

by blehargh

Miles253 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:11 pm
I'm talking to a few bike shops to see how has demos at this time of year, its tough to find one in a big size to be honest.

Interesting video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSuH8q3 ... .be&t=260s that I saw in another thread.
This is what Tobin was refering to above - there's hardly a difference. Probably best to test ride and see which one speaks to you.

by Weenie


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