Is Tubeless really all its cracked up to be?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Post Reply
Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

Screenshot_20190716-123605_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20190716-123651_Samsung Internet.jpg
Hi everyone, I've been on the fence 4 months now with going tubeless I am running Reynolds assualts slg which are tubeless ready but finding it difficult to make the jump as I just dont see the benefit.

I am currently running conti 4000 RS they weighed in at 195g per tyre. I have mounted these up with supersonic 50g inner tubes so total weight of tube + tyre is 245g. I have tubless tape installed on my clincher set up as it came with the wheels. I have had this set up for over a thousand miles now and never got a puncture.

I looked at RR (attached) and compared my set up to other tubeless tyres, the 5000TL and the pro 1.

The pro 1 has a higher rolling resistance and more weight.

The gp5000TL more weight lower RR

Punctures arent an issue for me. So I'm struggling to see a real benefit??

I must also add... the RR figures on the conti 4000 RS are with a 100g inner tube in as I'm running a supersonic 50g tube which acts more like a laytex tube in terms of RR I'd expect to RR to be even lower and closer to the conti 5000TL.

So from my research my set up a conti 4000 RS with supersonic tube has a lower RR and lower weight than a pro 1.

Lower weight and not far off the RR of a 5000TL.

Then there is the cost and no special pump needed, no sealant either.

I no the vittoria corsa speed is an option but it's not the tyre 4 me I do long distance riding 130 plus most weekends.

I would also still carry a tube just incase with the distances I ride.

Am I missing something?

by Weenie


bilwit
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

I've also noticed that the quoted RR advantages of tubeless seem overbloated when you consider the alternative of specifically latex tubed clinchers and not standard/thick butyl, but I think the main draw is the practicality of it. Not just the sealent aspect, but if you want to ride with low pressures (typically wider tire as well but not necessarily mutually exclusive, ie. ~60psi in a 23mm clincher stretched to 25) then pinch flats can be a definite concern with tubes, especially if you wander off onto some of these gravel trails.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dan112 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:35 pm

Punctures arent an issue for me. So I'm struggling to see a real benefit??

This is the primary reason I run tubeless. I used to flat several times a year with clinchers and Conti Race Lights, with increasing likelihood as the tire tread wore away. Now I pretty much never flat, and when I do, I can usually get the hole to seal after a couple minutes.

The added puncture protection is also nice when racing. I recently won a race where four of five competitors ahead of me flatted.

Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

Yeah that's true I guess running lower pressures is one benefit. But I find my bike more than comfortable enough it's a giant tcr. My rims are 25mm wide with a 25mm tyre that blows out to around 26mm.

I almost brought the conti 5000TL but adding a 110g to my wheels (across the pair) then the weight of the sealant just seems wrong to me.

Everything I've researched tells you how lighter tyres and wheelsets make the biggest difference due to rotational weight.

I get it for the gravel riders or people that go over very rough roads, or people that r just unlucky with flats...

But I can honestly say I rode the Birmingham velo over cobbles, I'm always on rough b roads in Wales and never had an issue.

Maybe I'm just lucky 😂😂

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Also there are lighter tires out there. 25mm Fusion 5 Galactik TLRs weigh <220g. This brings rotational weight differences down to a few grams. How much difference do you think that will make in a system that weighs >70kg?

flying
Posts: 1896
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

Dan112 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:55 pm
Yeah that's true I guess running lower pressures is one benefit. But I find my bike more than comfortable enough it's a giant tcr. My rims are 25mm wide with a 25mm tyre that blows out to around 26mm.

I almost brought the conti 5000TL but adding a 110g to my wheels (across the pair) then the weight of the sealant just seems wrong to me.

Everything I've researched tells you how lighter tyres and wheelsets make the biggest difference due to rotational weight.

I get it for the gravel riders or people that go over very rough roads, or people that r just unlucky with flats...

But I can honestly say I rode the Birmingham velo over cobbles, I'm always on rough b roads in Wales and never had an issue.

Maybe I'm just lucky 😂😂

Go with what you know to be true for you.
No need to be a slave to marketing

Your like me...rarely if ever flat
appreciate the simplicity of goopless wheels :wink:

Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

Screenshot_20190716-221231_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20190716-221243_Samsung Internet.jpg
The fusion 5 maybe just a bit heavier but then you still need to add sealant.

On RR is no faster but again that's based on the conti 4000 RS using a 100g tube. So with a supersonic tube in it would still be a better tyre for RR..

And the fusion has no real benefit of puncture protection.

Its it's still a slower (if u run a supersonic not a 100g tube that RR have based there results on) plus it's still a heavier tyre...

So I still can't see a benefit.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dan112 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:19 pm

The fusion 5 maybe just a bit heavier but then you still need to add sealant.

On RR is no faster but again that's based on the conti 4000 RS using a 100g tube. So with a supersonic tube in it would still be a better tyre for RR..

And the fusion has no real benefit of puncture protection.

Its it's still a slower (if u run a supersonic not a 100g tube that RR have based there results on) plus it's still a heavier tyre...

So I still can't see a benefit.

Stop relying entirely on BRR’s database. The Fusion 5 Galactiks tested are 1) the TL model and not the TLR model and 2) the older version without the 11Storm compound. My Galactiks weighed <220g and I use about 30g of sealant. That puts them in line with most race clinchers with light butyl tubes. Most light butyl tubes actually weigh around 75g each, by the way. Supersonics are just way too fragile for. most of us, and slower than a 75g latex tube. It sounds like you are going completely off claimed weights and outdated info.

BRR’s puncture tests are also fairly useless. All he does is apply increasing weight to a needle until it perforates the case. That doesn’t really account for things like glass or how easily a casing frays. That’s also a scenario that favors tubeless. Small round holes are the easiest to seal.

The best thing for you to do is actually try tubeless for yourself. Your research into this has not been thorough enough.

Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

Screenshot_20190716-223818_WhatsApp.jpg
My supersonics are 50g.... I've weighed everything on my build not 70g... (take the dust cap off and the locking screw its 50g)

My tyres weighted in a 194g and 196g so I took an average of 195g...

In relation to puncture protection my main point is I havnt had a flat...

The TLRs arent on RR the reason I look on there is because manufacturers will state anything... say vittoria with their tyre weights it's very different to actually weighing them you'll always find they are heavier than stated.

So why would I buy the fusion, even if it's still around the same weight and RR? I'm still better off with a tyre that's cheaper and easier to mount.
Last edited by Dan112 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 2398
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I’ve read horror stories about sealant getting onto cycling kits and permanently staining the kits. Is it true? I fear this the most as I have a lot of kit in black.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 2398
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I’ve had mixed luck with Supersonic tubes. Some tubes will last a long time but others have issues. Then I switched to a 66g. tube (Maxxis, not Conti race light or Michelin Light) and they are an order of magnitude more durable and consistent. They are only a few grams lighter than Conti race lights but I’m after the RR benefit of lighter tubes. Of course latex is the best for RR but I won’t use them along with a clincher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dan112 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:40 pm
Screenshot_20190716-223818_WhatsApp.jpg

My supersonics are 50g.... I've weighed everything on my build not 70g... (take the dust cap off and the locking screw its 50g)

My tyres weighted in a 194g and 196g so I took an average of 195g...

In relation to puncture protection my main point is I havnt had a flat...

The TLRs arent on RR the reason I look on there is because manufacturers will state anything... say vittoria with their tyre weights it's very different to actually weighing them you'll always find they are heavier than stated.

So why would I buy the fusion, even if it's still around the same weight and RR? I'm still better off with a tyre that's cheaper and easier to mount.

Surely you realize that people who don't flat are outliers. Again, just read any of the numerous tubeless discussions on this forum and others next time before starting yet another thread. Almost all your questions have been answered in depth.

Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 pm
I’ve had mixed luck with Supersonic tubes. Some tubes will last a long time but others have issues. Then I switched to a 66g. tube (Maxxis, not Conti race light or Michelin Light) and they are an order of magnitude more durable and consistent. They are only a few grams lighter than Conti race lights but I’m after the RR benefit of lighter tubes. Of course latex is the best for RR but I won’t use them along with a clincher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I have heard some of the supersonics letting go but in my experience I've had no issues. I'm not a really lightweight rider either at 76kg and I do bunny hop the bike over pot holes etc.

I have heard that about the sealant aswel with clothing but cant confirm.

It's not that I hate tubeless either I just struggle to see a benefit for me, if u flat a lot I get it but for those who dont I think swapping to a more expensive set up that's not any faster and heavier in most cases, usually is more hassle to set up with sealant, pumps etc. I just dont no if I'm missing something.

Only real advantage so far I can see is u can run lower pressures... but I'm guessing that's for comfort and I find my bike comfy as it is

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:44 pm
I’ve read horror stories about sealant getting onto cycling kits and permanently staining the kits. Is it true? I fear this the most as I have a lot of kit in black.

Orange Seal did stain one of my black windvests, but then again my kits have glue stains, tears from safety pins, rain/mud stains, etc.

Dan112
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:14 am

by Dan112

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:03 pm
Dan112 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:40 pm
Screenshot_20190716-223818_WhatsApp.jpg

My supersonics are 50g.... I've weighed everything on my build not 70g... (take the dust cap off and the locking screw its 50g)

My tyres weighted in a 194g and 196g so I took an average of 195g...

In relation to puncture protection my main point is I havnt had a flat...

The TLRs arent on RR the reason I look on there is because manufacturers will state anything... say vittoria with their tyre weights it's very different to actually weighing them you'll always find they are heavier than stated.

So why would I buy the fusion, even if it's still around the same weight and RR? I'm still better off with a tyre that's cheaper and easier to mount.

Surely you realize that people who don't flat are outliers. Again, just read any of the numerous tubeless discussions on this forum and others next time before starting yet another thread. Almost all your questions have been answered in depth.
So I'm a liar now. Why would I lie about that??? I havnt flatted once on this set up and have tracked over a thousand miles now...

If I flatted I would just go tubeless wouldn't I... I already have tubeless ready rims 4 a start...

I have read though aswel many nights infact... but I'm comparing my set up... a gp4000 RS with a supersonic to a tubeless...

Which has not been discussed on the forum
Last edited by Dan112 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post