Ribble/Campagnolo disc bike. A die hard rim braker's first disc brake build!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
c60rider
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:28 am
For those with squealing disc brakes in the wet. Try SwissStop Disc RS pads. No joke, they are silent in the rain.
:beerchug: Good recommendation on that one if the website is to be believed "In wet, dry, snow and ice conditions the compound is noiseless". Can anyone feedback the reality that their existing pads were howling in the wet and when changing to these they're as quiet as they claim? Only found a couple of reviews on Wiggle that seem to confirm they're quiet but not specifically mentioned wet weather noise.

by Weenie


Broady
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

For the record, I have zero squeals in dry or wet weather, both with Shimano and Hope RX4 calipers.

This is with QR too, no fancy thru axles. Metal and Organic pads also.

I'd maybe try those pads above, if you still get noise there's clearly a major issue.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3655
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

For all those with "solutions" to wet weather noise, remember not just the pad. It's the combination of pad with absolutely everything else including the rider. Such is often the case with harmonic type vibration noises. It comes down to the combination that cancels out the noise. So while the SwissStop pads may work well with some combinations, it's far from a certainty they will work in all. Thanks for the tip Tobin. Obviously worth a try. Still, c60rider's question about whether the SwissStop pads have fixed a formerly loud bike is a fair one.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Broady
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

Yep, I remember one guy I met, his front brake squealed like crazy, if you reached down and touched the fork you could feel the vibration.

c60rider
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Broady wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:57 pm
Yep, I remember one guy I met, his front brake squealed like crazy, if you reached down and touched the fork you could feel the vibration.
Is that good idea to reach down there? :lol:

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

c60rider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:44 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:28 am
For those with squealing disc brakes in the wet. Try SwissStop Disc RS pads. No joke, they are silent in the rain.
:beerchug: Good recommendation on that one if the website is to be believed "In wet, dry, snow and ice conditions the compound is noiseless". Can anyone feedback the reality that their existing pads were howling in the wet and when changing to these they're as quiet as they claim? Only found a couple of reviews on Wiggle that seem to confirm they're quiet but not specifically mentioned wet weather noise.

I use them. They are silent in all conditions except one...If you use those .25mm centerlock rotor shims, those tend to vibrate under braking. Nothing you can do about that except maybe cut them down to the perfect diameter.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3351
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

maybe I'll switch to those on my gravel/winter rig when it comes time..

StellarPatellar
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:57 am

by StellarPatellar

Came here looking for a Ribble review. Crossing that one off the list of frames to consider. Much appreciated!

joejack951
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:27 pm
I use them. They are silent in all conditions except one...If you use those .25mm centerlock rotor shims, those tend to vibrate under braking. Nothing you can do about that except maybe cut them down to the perfect diameter.
Can you elaborate on this? How would you design a better rotor shim? I may look into making these if existing shims are causing squealing issues.

otnemem
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

c60rider wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:01 pm
I just wonder how much input they have in frame design and how much is just left to the factory where they're manufactured and once that hole that the cable comes out of the frame is set there's no going back.
None. They're chinese frames you can buy directly. They paint them and many times they even mess that up. Fine if you're doing a budget build and don't want to deal with customs, otherwise go direct to the Chinese vendors or look elsewhere entirely.

RedbullFiXX
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:27 pm
c60rider wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:44 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:28 am
For those with squealing disc brakes in the wet. Try SwissStop Disc RS pads. No joke, they are silent in the rain.
:beerchug: Good recommendation on that one if the website is to be believed "In wet, dry, snow and ice conditions the compound is noiseless". Can anyone feedback the reality that their existing pads were howling in the wet and when changing to these they're as quiet as they claim? Only found a couple of reviews on Wiggle that seem to confirm they're quiet but not specifically mentioned wet weather noise.

I use them. They are silent in all conditions except one...If you use those .25mm centerlock rotor shims, those tend to vibrate under braking. Nothing you can do about that except maybe cut them down to the perfect diameter.
i use these from November bikes
no issues
Attachments
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Cyclocross, in general, is about riding the wrong bike for the conditions.

c60rider
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Update time as I said earlier in the thread I would eventually complete this thread after a few months of use.

So after several months of use in all weathers, mainly damp, wet or pouring down with rain conditions I feel qualified to feed back my thoughts on this bike and on disc brakes. After all the issues of building up the bike it actually rides really well. Based on average speed/power output it was surprisingly fast even with mudguards on so that's a thumbs up for the frame. In respect of the rear mudguard bridge that was useless I eventually just wedged it with some 3M vhb pads. It looks a bit crude I suppose but it actually is really solid and rattle free.

Image

But this bike build and thread was all about the brakes and the opportunity to have a disc brake bike for myself. I will state as I did at the start this is purely my opinion and for those that were in a similar position to myself that didn't feel a need to jump on the disc brake bike bandwagon. But I was open to it and had been unable to ascertain what the real benefits were and were they as good compared with their trusty rim brake bikes. A black and white difference according to many, I'm not going to link to that inflammatory and odious thread that was here a few weeks ago stirring up the rim v disc hatred. It may benefit those riders coming from the same standpoint as I did that rim brakes are perfectly good bikes and is there really that much difference/benefit going to discs?

For my purpose, which is as a dedicated damp/wet weather bike exclusively to use on the road, they are an utter disaster. The initial main issue is that of screeching brakes in anything other than dry conditions. For my ears it's one of the most offensive sounds a bike has ever made. Even worse than riding with a chain with all the lube washed off! That was with the initial setup with Campagnolo pads. I went with the Swissstop RS pads recommended by TobinHatesYou and in slightly damp, non-raining conditions they are certainly a vast improvement sound-wise over the Campag pads. In heavy rain/puddles they are still screechy in a really unpleasant way and yes they have been bedded in. Several times and in several different ways that I have read about. But the main issue with riding in the wet with disc brakes is the continuous scraping noise you get with water/grit being washed onto the bike and getting in between the pads and disc. If you're not sure what that is then if you jack a car wheel off the floor and spin it round you get that same noise. It's constant in the wet so much so you can't even hear the drivetrain or any tyre noise. It drives me crazy!! Even in damp conditions it keeps happening. A quick dab on the brakes can clear it for a moment but not in soaking conditions. Yes everything is setup correctly and when it's dry there's no catching at all (other than when you brake and it can leave you with a bit of the same noise while the discs/pads cool back down and that's an annoyance in itself). There's no adjustment at all as it's governed by the design. Terrible!

The other reason for going with disc brakes was the supposed improved braking performance that all reviews of disc brake bikes make reference to. The interesting thing about these reviews is they're nearly always in places with clear skies and warm weather like Girona, Tuscany and Gran Canaria where I think the Campag launch was. And those reviews just make a vague "the promise of improved wet weather braking performance" without any of those testers actually having tested them in those conditions. I don't think I've read any real world testing of what this improved performance actually is. And have manufacturers released any data to prove or show the differences between their different brakes? Not that I've seen. I've found them to be far from a brake upgrade and more as a brake side grade ie an alternative. I've felt no improvement in braking performance. What I mean is the ability to stop faster. There is only one difference and that is the feel at the brake lever is far lighter to generate the equivalent power that you can in rim brakes. That might be a benefit if you have weak hands or a disability of some sort but not for me. But that actual power to improve stopability I've seen no difference. Hey I can even lock my wheels up with my 30 year old Delta brakes and they used to be marketed as almost anti-lock brakes as that was starting to get fashionable with cars in the mid-80s when they first appeared. But I believe this lighter pressure to be able to generate power at the lever is being mistaken for claiming disc brakes being more powerful. The initial feel in wet weather is very similar to rim brakes as you have to scrub off the water off the disc so braking is non-existent initially. But as soon as more pressure is applied wow there's that screeching which starts to make me back off the braking due to sheer embarrassment that there's something seriously wrong with my bike to be making such a hideous noise! On a more serious note, those in the UK that ride on the kind of lanes I do it's very usual to come round a bend and see horse riders in the road. Now they can be a super tetchy bunch at the best of times and what I really don't want to do is go screeching up to them causing the horses to utterly flip! It really is a serious issue and when approaching horses in the wet I'm braking way ahead to try and gently get some heat into the brakes to clear the water out. Crazy. I could go on with this but you get the idea of my thoughts.

So any positives? In 6 months I'm struggling. Bigger clearance yes however I don't use anything bigger than 25mm tyres and rim brakes will allow me to fit mudguards as well with that tyre combo. I really can't think of any benefits for me personally in having this bike. And the negatives have been so negative the thinking in my mind is that I will be getting rid of this bike early spring time once there is dryer weather and I'm out on the best bike. Other than the brakes the bike is great as I said at the start. I think Ribble have a really good platform here as most of their current frames follow the same style. So as I said I think I'll likely be looking to move this bike on. I'm not sure quite what I will do with it. I would like to keep the power meter but then means it would be lacking a chainset if I put it up for sale which kind of makes it unsaleable. But if anyone is interested then I might consider selling it with the power meter. Otherwise I might just pull it apart and sell the components separately and take a hit financially which I will be anyway. However what I would probably do is purchase a decent level aluminium rim brake frameset and move all the components from an existing bike onto it so it wouldn't actually cost me anything extra.

So there we go that's my thoughts as someone who wanted to like disc brakes but has been left a bit scarred by it now but at least I know I'll never be going there again. And hopefully that might benefit others in the same position as myself without them getting the same let down. Constructive comments only please :thumbup:

User avatar
Miller
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

You've certainly given discs a fair crack of the whip and if you don't like them, you don't like them. I'm now running two bikes with Campag discs so I've gone the other way.

> But the main issue with riding in the wet with disc brakes is the continuous scraping noise you get with water/grit being washed onto the bike
> and getting in between the pads and disc.
No question that this is a thing, it absolutely is, and this autumn and early winter has been so wet in UK that I've heard this noise a lot. Thing is, what originally pushed me to discs was a wet winter 7 years ago when every time I braked, all I could hear was the scraping sound of brake pads pressing grit onto the rims. That pissed me off. Lesson is, if the weathr is sh!t it makes cycling difficult and that's all there is to it.

As for screeching, a few weeks ago after I'd done a big overhaul to my bike following an intensely muddy off-road ride I took it out on a clubrun and, oh god, the screeching was horrendous. I've put in different wheels with different rotors and am trying the swissstop pads and now the braking is silent again (other than when grit gets on the rotors as I skirt past yet another puddle-turning-into-a-flood). Someone remarks up thread that screeching is a symptom of the entire wheel/bike system and I think there's truth in that. It doesn't help in pinning down a solution though.

All that said I love my disc brakes for their power and ease of modulation and yes, I do think they're superior to rim brakes in that way, plus, they clean up the look of the bike. Rim brakes in poor weather are collectors of mud and grit.

AJS914
Posts: 3677
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I think there is a huge variation between various brands of disc brakes and pads. I'm by no means an expert but I've had a few disc bikes now.

I had an XT mountain bike that would squeal and set up ridiculous virbrations through the frame from the rear caliper.

I had another mtb (hardtail race bike) with Formula brakes. They had amazing next level stopping power but were loud and screachy dry or wet. They were so loud that they would scare people, dogs, or horses on the trail.

On my current mtb I have Sram Guide brakes and on my gravel/cross bike I have Sram Force 1. Both of these bikes are surprisingly quiet in both dry and wet. The gravel bike has 140mm rotors so stopping power is not overly exceptional though competent. On both bikes I find the use of DOT fluid to be a big, messy pain in the ass.

Maybe some of these techniques will help:

https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... we-promise

I've also heard good things about kevlar based brake pads (with regards to being quiet).

by Weenie


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kgt
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Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

@c60rider
Many thanks for your review

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