Tarmac rim brake options no more

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Alexbn921
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

What does that have to do with you insulting me? I don't care if you don't like disks. :noidea:
Maybe it's the size of you tiny member that is casing you problems. Perhaps you’ve cut off blood flow with all you riding and I can help you by suggesting you get a cut in your seat. It will also help with the giant sitck in your ass. :welcome:

3Pio
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexbn921 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:17 pm
What does that have to do with you insulting me? I don't care if you don't like disks. :noidea:
Maybe it's the size of you tiny member that is casing you problems. Perhaps you’ve cut off blood flow with all you riding and I can help you by suggesting you get a cut in your seat. It will also help with the giant sitck in your ass. :welcome:

U know, probably u have some problems to realize that this is forum for people actually riding bicycles, and many of users here ride a lot and for real..

So are u insult everyone who ride a lot and for real with this claim?

Now read carefully my reply (it was in friendly tone if u did not realize), and ur reply.. And think clearly.. Which reply is connected with tiny member based on math statistics (since u have math degree and u like math) about reaction when someone have small tiny member or maybe some other more serious problems, or probably both?

And please read this, maybe will help u realizing about avg reaction for people with small member.. Heard about Big Truck= Small D... ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comm ... mall_dick/

"There are tons of people who own big trucks who don't use them for the purpose that they were originally intended to be used for (transporting lots of stuff, rough roads, towing, etc.). The stereotype started because people wondered why these types of truck owners were truck owners in the first place if they don't "use" their truck. The assumption is that the trucks were bought to establish a masculine presence due to something causing a lack of that presence in the person's life (like having a small dick). I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying that's what the mindset behind the stereotype is."

And u are right.. I ride a lot and i actually use my bikes for purpose intended to be used ..... As much as i can..

What u said, u did not use ur bike a lot for purpose intended to be used? Hmm....


And are u practicing a lot to be this or u are just talented?

What ever is reason I feel sorry for u...
Last edited by 3Pio on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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Alexbn921
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

I'm sure you do.

TheRich
Posts: 602
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

3Pio wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:24 pm
U know, probably u have some problems to realize that this is forum for people actually riding bicycles, and many of users here ride a lot and for real..

So are u insult everyone who ride a lot and for real with this claim?
(I know these aren't overly impressive numbers)

Who rides alot?

Image



The problem with posting Strava screenshots is that someone is going to show you up if they want to....and Strava is a crap metric anyway.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

Sorry out riding, missed the argument. :thumbup:

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

mortirolo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:47 am
Disk brake or Rim brake, there are millions of specialized on the roads, so why would you like buy a Tarmac?
You can buy De Rosa, Time, AX...
:thumbup:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

sgtrobo
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:36 am

by sgtrobo

3Pio wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:49 am
If u want to understund how disk brakes can be dangerous, just go very fast, and press the brake lever full power (that why is called panic stop).. And maybe u;ll find out (at least that how those two guys broke their hips)..
Makes no sense to criticize the equipment because the user panicked and improperly used the equipment.

Jugi
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Nine months ago I wanted the "last hurrah" of a rim brake road bike. I wanted to have the pinnacle of that particular technology and knew that is what I needed.

Then got the SL6 Pro rim brake frameset. Now it is discontinued. Haven't seen another one of that color in real life just yet. Damn, I feel exclusive!

alexmcm09
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:02 am

by alexmcm09

So this thread comes at an interesting time. Upon replacing my BB bearings recently my LBS discovered my BB shell has worn away so the bearings slip in and out by hand. The shop I bought my Tarmac SL6 Pro from have all but confirmed it's a warranty case and are stripping down the bike to send the frame off to specialized on Monday.

I have the Tarmac Pro in a rim brake version - which Specialized no longer make. Fingers crossed that they have a few frames stored away for warranty claims!

syplam
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:30 am

by syplam

how about braking when its wet ? I always thought disk brakes are better when it's raining? Please prove me wrong before I get a disk bike.

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iheartbianchi
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

Alexbn921 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:19 pm

Rim brakes DO NOT have enough power. In fact it's approximately half the power of a disk brake. Carbon rims are absolutely horrible even in the dry.

Being able to stop at the limit of tration is only a good thing. Rim brakes can't do this.
Carbon rim brakes have more than enough power for World Tour pros flying down alps at 90+km/h, unless you are implying that they would be descending even faster with disc brakes? I doubt that would be possible given air resistance and gearing, and I'm not sure that's something we would want to encourage to begin with.

Which ties into "stopping at the limit of traction." That's a fine statement when you are dealing with a motorcar with a driver hooked into a six-strap harness, hans device and the latest in safety features engineered into the cockpit, but cyclists should not be going downhill at the same braking limits as an F1 driver nor would they be able to again given the air resistance and gearing. Cyclists are going downhill on open roads, racecar drivers race on closed circuits with runoffs and engineered safety barriers. They can afford to drive to the limit. You've seen how many professional drivers get it wrong resulting in horrific crashes, and how often such crashes occur. I'm sure every F1 driver gets it wrong at least once each season and either goes into the barriers or leaves the track. Those are the limits. Do you really want to see every WT cyclist getting it wrong at those rates and flying unprotected into guardrails or off a cliff?

For the ultimate question - are disc brakes "better"? Probably yes in almost every regard (aero, convenience, changing wheels, etc., kind of suck but are getting better). But the related question - do we "need" disc brakes? I'd say probably not because most of us just aren't going fast enough where rim brakes become dangerously ineffective, and also because even World Tour pros aren't pushing the rim brakes to the limit.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

syplam wrote:how about braking when its wet ? I always thought disk brakes are better when it's raining? Please prove me wrong before I get a disk bike.
That’s an interesting one, because by most if not all accounts discs are better in the pouring rain, but I have to admit I’ve never ridden discs in a really bad rain storm, although I live in a very wet climate. My dedicated rain bike... full fenders and Nemesis rims works fine and I exercise caution in those conditions regardless. The roads are still slippery despite what you brake with.
But here’s the thing, I remember when I first wanted to test out disc brakes on the road. I took out a Giant with Ultegra hydraulic discs. Nice long ride. Fast descents hard braking, just to test it out. In the dry I was not impressed, I mean sure I could stop but I would never have traded my Boras/Campy calipers rim setup for them. Ok, so for dry conditions to me at least, it was a no brainer... I simply preferred my exisitng setup for all the reasons I’ve discussed before. And I’ve ridden Dura Ace discs as well, much more recently and my thoughts haven’t changed. But... I really wanted to test what all the fuss was about over how great they are in the pouring rain. So I had agreed with the shop owner I know, that on the next torrential downpour kind of day, I would take the same bike out for a nice long ride and really test it out on roads I know well. On the condition that I cleaned it and brought it back pristine, and he trusted and knew I would do that. And that day finally came. I looked out the window with rain pounding against it, and thought... ya know... I really don’t care how they brake in the wet, because I will never at this point in my life be starting a ride in these conditions if I don’t have to. And I never took it out.
Now, if I was a daily commuter in my winter climate, then I’d try it out, for sure, but even more important than discs in those conditions would be full fenders and mudflaps to within a couple centimeters of the ground. And that’s what I have on my dedicated rim brake rain bike, which by the way, is much easier to fit full fenders around cleanly, especially when trying to mount the fender stays on the fork and chain/seatstays.
So, I guess if you think your time riding in the pouring rain is significant enough to warrant the added hassles of living with discs, then for sure, have at it. But for me, I’ve never had a problem when I get caught in the rain, even on my Campy/Boras setup which are very very good in any conditions. Now, rewind to the time when carbon road rims were just taking hold, and the “best” pads for carbon rims you could get were those god awful SwissStop Yellow things, well yes... those were scary days for sure in the rain. I was appalled at how I literally could not stop with my first set of carbon clinchers, and it didn’t help that the first day I really rode them was during a group ride on a cool rainy fall day. But those days are long gone. Today, carbon rims (but by no means all carbon rims) combined with appropriate pads really do have excellent, just as good or better than, braking as alloy rims for sure. But yes, if you are riding in the rain more than you’re riding in the dry, then for sure I’d look closely at the disc options. Or, if you really want to be riding 30mm or larger tires on your road bike, then discs really are your only option. But as some previous posters were recently saying, and I whole heartedly agree with, if you want a fine rim brake bike, and know exactly what you want from a geometry perspective, I’d be looking at a really nice custom steel frame. The steels of today are pretty amazing, given how thinly the walls can be drawn along with the butting options. At this point, I think that’s the way I’d be going if I was in the market for a new frame. Because it’s clear the big manufacturers would just like to cease supporting the two platform business model entirely. And life goes on. There are options. And good ones. Don’t despair, either way.
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syplam
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:30 am

by syplam

fair point, maybe I just worry too much when i have to descend on a rainy day.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I guess you just have to ask yourself which is more important to you... the simplicity, nimbleness, and quietness of troublefree rim brakes on a sunny day when you can most appreciate the joy of a proper road bike, or to put up with all the extra maintenance, disc rub and tinging, etc on the otherwise perfect days so that you can be a little less miserable on the miserably cold and wet days knowing you have discs. I don’t care which one works best for you. I just don’t like that manufacturers are taking that choice away in a lot of cases. And I always knew it was coming. It’s the best business decision, for them.
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by Weenie


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Alexbn921
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by Alexbn921

iheartbianchi wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:16 pm

Carbon rim brakes have more than enough power for World Tour pros flying down alps at 90+km/h, unless you are implying that they would be descending even faster with disc brakes? I doubt that would be possible given air resistance and gearing, and I'm not sure that's something we would want to encourage to begin with.

Which ties into "stopping at the limit of traction." That's a fine statement when you are dealing with a motorcar with a driver hooked into a six-strap harness, hans device and the latest in safety features engineered into the cockpit, but cyclists should not be going downhill at the same braking limits as an F1 driver nor would they be able to again given the air resistance and gearing. Cyclists are going downhill on open roads, racecar drivers race on closed circuits with runoffs and engineered safety barriers. They can afford to drive to the limit. You've seen how many professional drivers get it wrong resulting in horrific crashes, and how often such crashes occur. I'm sure every F1 driver gets it wrong at least once each season and either goes into the barriers or leaves the track. Those are the limits. Do you really want to see every WT cyclist getting it wrong at those rates and flying unprotected into guardrails or off a cliff?
Do rim brakes work? Yes, they do. They will slow you down at an acceptable rate and do so with a good degree of heat management. If you plan your stops to not exceed there threshold power and manage your thermal loading you can very successfully ride down a mountain very fast.

Pro use them to their limit as you would expect, it's their job. They will not be achieving a faster top speed but will be able to brake much later. They can also use all available traction for a time decrease or a safety overhead. This is only a good thing. Having better feel at the lever is also a bonus as the limit is much easier to modulate. If a car pulls out in front of me on a hill, I want to stop as fast as physically possible.

Two wheeled vehicles with the ability to use all available traction is not a bad thing. Mountain bikers have brakes that are 4x the power and they are riding on dirt, still they can effectively use the brakes. This is a skill and it must be practiced. Not everyone is interested in doing this and that’s okay. So many people can't or don’t want to drive a stick car or ride a motorcycle.

Your personal comfort and skill level should determine the risks you are willing to take. Having equipment that is holding you back should not be the deterring factor.

I personally won't hit jumps of a certain size. The risk is not worth it. I don't bomb down mountain roads at Mach speed during busy times or bad weather.

If you don't think that disks add to your cycling experience, then don't get them. They are a pain to install, require special tools and weigh more. I find the tradeoffs worth the hassle and have been waiting for year for them to come to the bikes I want to buy. That time has come, and I am happy. Same thing for tubeless, except for the weight. The tradeoffs are completely worth it to me. Getting rotors true is just like truing a wheel and mine are +-.001 inch. Crappy setup is crappy setup, regardless of the bike. Remember when 10 speed bikes would never be able to shift like a 9 speed and the good old days when 7 speed had a nice fat chain. You could have a mangled hanger and still use your friction shifter to compensate. Poor setup is a bad excuse. Not to be confused with bad design or poor execution. Man, I hate press fit BB’s. Kill them with fire.

Dt swiss erc 1100 dicut disc wheels will be here today with GP5000 TL tires! Can't wait to get out on the new bike. :beerchug:

Road bikes have gotten to the point that the current rim tech is about as good as it can get. Parts and frames will be available for decades. The new, new stuff will shift to disk, but the market will always provide for those that are willing to spend their hard-earned money. Custom and specialty brands will survive catering to this segment. Also, NOS parts seem to stick around forever. I can still find Flight trans am saddles form the 90’s and snatch them up every time they pop up on eBay.

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