The future of performance road bikes?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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kgt
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by kgt

+1
The 'masses' never asked for disc brakes. They were fine with rim brakes for decades. Then some big bicycle manufacturers decided otherwise.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TheRich wrote: There is no way that a manufacturer can force a product change on the market that it doesn't want, consumers would simply go somewhere else.

They can try to resist change, like Giant with 29ers, or Specialized with 27.5, but they either fall in line with demand or they will fail.
Manufacturers can and do and have done exactly that, it’s the very definition of forced obsolescence. Creating new markets and obsoleting the old if natural demand fails to take hold. Or at least help it along by discontinuing the old altogether as we’re seeing now. If consumers have nowhere else to go, they can either buy what the manufacturer wants to sell them or build it themselves. Most will just buy whatever the manufacturers are selling at the time, and say, oh well... kinda liked what I had but this is what’s now. Forced obsolescence. Not a new thing in the business world by any means.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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by Weenie


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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

Welcome to planet earth, consumerism has not appeared just for disc brakes! :mrgreen:

TheRich
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by TheRich

kgt wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:21 pm
+1
The 'masses' never asked for disc brakes. They were fine with rim brakes for decades. Then some big bicycle manufacturers decided otherwise.
But when the option came up, that's what they opted for.

We were "fine" with relatively horrible mountain bikes for a long time too. I'm really confused by the notion that road bikes have reached their peak and are unable to be improved upon.
Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:54 pm
TheRich wrote: There is no way that a manufacturer can force a product change on the market that it doesn't want, consumers would simply go somewhere else.

They can try to resist change, like Giant with 29ers, or Specialized with 27.5, but they either fall in line with demand or they will fail.
Manufacturers can and do and have done exactly that, it’s the very definition of forced obsolescence. Creating new markets and obsoleting the old if natural demand fails to take hold. Or at least help it along by discontinuing the old altogether as we’re seeing now. If consumers have nowhere else to go, they can either buy what the manufacturer wants to sell them or build it themselves. Most will just buy whatever the manufacturers are selling at the time, and say, oh well... kinda liked what I had but this is what’s now. Forced obsolescence. Not a new thing in the business world by any means.
Don't make it into a semantics argument.

They build disk bikes because people buy disk bikes, if people didn't want disk bikes, they'd buy someone else's rim brake bike.

flying
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by flying

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:16 pm
@flying: I’d like to believe that a niche market could influence the big players, but business is business.
Well on the positive side..."retro grouch's" :roll: like us probably have enough stuff to see us happily thru the rest of our lifetime of riding :D

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hey @flying, speak for yourself. I ain’t no retrogrouch, although I like the connotation . I’d gladly be in line to give my money away for something I want, just not seeing it. But you’re right... I’ve got enough nice stuff to see me through to the grave. And I won’t have to replace a single battery the whole time. Lol
But damn, this money is just burnin’ a hole in my pockets. Gimme somethin’ worthwhile to spend it on. I mean something really good. Anything out there at the moment would be just a disappointment.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:47 pm
But damn, this money is just burnin’ a hole in my pockets. Gimme somethin’ worthwhile to spend it on. I mean something really good. Anything out there at the moment would be just a disappointment.
Send it my way, I'll buy new stuff just to test out, if I find something really good I'll let you know! :mrgreen: :beerchug:

XCProMD
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by XCProMD

Alexbn921 wrote:I have run XTR disk brakes for 5 years and only had changed the pads 2 times. No other maintenance. 99% of my riding group bought a prebuilt bike and have run their brakes with zero maintenance for 3+ years. Hydro is mature tech and requires little to no maintained. This is blown complete out of proportion.
Now, it is more of a pain and requires different tools than a cable if it does break. How many people want to go back to cable operated drum brakes or carburetors on their cars?

Depends on the riding. I don’t even dare to have XTR brakes on my bikes anymore. Keeping the lever stroke in place is near impossible and then you have the cracked pistons all the freaking time.

For DH and Enduro discs are definitely needed, but even sinter pads go more frequently than rear 2 ply tyres. Mature is it, but is such a small format as a bike is also finicky and requires frequent intervention which, when a bleed is needed, is a hassle.

For road bikes I find rim brakes to be more than enough, and they require much less and easier work.

flying
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by flying

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:47 pm
Hey @flying, speak for yourself. I ain’t no retrogrouch, although I like the connotation Image. I’d gladly be in line to give my money away for something I want, just not seeing it. But you’re right... I’ve got enough nice stuff to see me through to the grave. And I won’t have to replace a single battery the whole time. Lol
But damn, this money is just burnin’ a hole in my pockets. Gimme somethin’ worthwhile to spend it on. I mean something really good. Anything out there at the moment would be just a disappointment.

Hahah :lol: Neither am I that is why I put that rolling eyes emoticon there :D

Truth is I know folks who do not want disc are branded as retro grouch's but I don't think it is true at all.
Same goes for electronic shifting

Well :beerchug:

When we went from downtube shifter to indexed & then indexed on brake levers yes I could appreciate the benefit
Same goes for toe clips...albeit I changed over as slowly as Sean Kelly :D But ok a benefit

But disc & electronic shift? Nah I think I will surely pass

Having come from days of Mavic GEL280 or Fiamme Gold & red labels rims...I never wore a single rim out nor have I had any problem stopping or more
exactly modulating speed with rim brakes

Electronic shift? Oh yeah that is what I need to simplify the utterly simple task of indexed shifting I will add
servos,wires,switches,batteries & chargers....I will get right on that...yeah right :wink:

Ok sorry for the rant :D
Would be nice if everyone has what they want available & if not...well like I said we probably have enough spares to survive the new wave :wink:

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I’ve never had to deal with worn cables or housings with electronic shifting. I used to get hand fatigue on 100mi/10000ft elevation rides with mechanical shifting. Electronic shifting takes away that hand fatigue and allows me to ride farther/longer. To each their own, I think electronic shifting is wonderful.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I’m with ya all the way @flying. In fact, i know a few young racer types, one in particular who I’ve loaned a nice TT bike to since he couldn’t afford one of his own, racing at a high level, and I couldn’t do it justice anyway, so it worked out. He’s in his 20’s, and shares the same attitude I do, so he’s proof that common sense and rational decision re bike tech isn’t limited to old people. He absolutely loves my bike stable, mechanical shifting and all and would gladly trade his sponsored steeds for any of mine if he could.
You made mention of Sean Kelly. A good cycling friend of mine is quite proud of a picture he has of himself edging out Sean Kelley at the line “back in the day”, in the “old country” (we retrogrouches love using phrases like that).
But yes, if technology is that great, it is adopted quickly and completely at all levels, especially at the racing level. It always cracks me up when people compare the snails pace and forced adoption of road discs in the pro peloton with the introduction of STI and Ergo shifting etc. Ha. There was no delay at all, as soon as people could get or afford them, they had them. That’s how it was for me too. Some stuff is a no brainer. But the people claiming slow adoption back then are probably too young to remember how it really was.
Hey, is it tea time, or nap time now. I always get so mixed up at this time of day.
[edited for poor Tobin’s sake]: Mostly I think I need a nap cuz I went for a bike ride earlier and my hands are incredibly fatigued. Mommy... will you rub tiger balm in them please.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

mag
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Re electronic shifting - I can see its potential advantage in complete self-adjustment capability. You install it on the bike, adjust one or both limits and don't care about the rest as it will take care of all of that itself. And it should be of course able to handle various cassette types (11s, 12s, 13s, whatever). Slightly bent RD hanger? No problem, it will handle that (to some extent of course). Maybe programmable automatic shifting based on power, cadence and other data... But it isn't there yet and until then it just doesn't utilize its potential.
No interest in having to look after another battery/batteries and some reliability issues in the current state of things.

RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

I love my electric shifting... for the front derailier. Not needed in the back imho.

Mechanical works so well in the back.

Upgrades that are not clear upgrades are a hard sell for me. Rim vs disc is an example. Just not a clearcut “upgrade” for all. For some it is a “sidestep.”

flying
Posts: 1888
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:55 pm

You made mention of Sean Kelly. A good cycling friend of mine is quite proud of a picture he has of himself edging out Sean Kelley at the line “back in the day”, in the “old country” (we retrogrouches love using phrases like that).
But yes, if technology is that great, it is adopted quickly and completely at all levels, especially at the racing level.

[edited for poor Tobin’s sake]: Mostly I think I need a nap cuz I went for a bike ride earlier and my hands are incredibly fatigued. Mommy... will you rub tiger balm in them please.
True that & Kelly was probably the last top pro to switch to clipless.
I remember thinking ok then I guess there might be something to it & changed out my Superleggeri pedals

I guess about the pro electronic shifters claiming hand fatigue....Well if so then I'm glad they have some relief but at the same time I cannot help but think of
what a pal of mine who owns a gym said....

He told me how these lady members come into his gym
They complain like heck that there was no parking near his gym & how they had to walk a block to get there.

Then they get on a treadmill & walk for 45 minutes.....He laughs because it is so ironic :D

EDIT: ***Disclaimer***
All kidding aside I am most happy that anyone & everyone enjoys cycling in which ever form they choose :thumbup:
One thing we can all agree on is the beauty of cycling

by Weenie


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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:46 pm
I used to get hand fatigue on 100mi/10000ft elevation rides with mechanical shifting.
for real?

that's gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever read on WW. I mean like THE stupidest thing.

btw your whole act, starting from your username and ending with your absolutely unconditional praìse of every bit of $hit manufacturers are pushing these days that you stick everywhere you can, your "arguments" that scream "I just it made up", it all feels more than odd - like not coming from a real or entirely sane person. this board has seen many users who'd burn through their rather short tenure with thousands of posts, even making some kind of name for themselves, but sooner rather than later ending up banned, or just "losing interest" because they turned from a hero to an annoying zero in like no time. you're on that very course dude.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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