The future of performance road bikes?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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RocketRacing
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Dropped seat stays. Kamm tails. Sloping top tube. Raised head tube. Slacker geometry. Improved stiffness to weight. Increased vertical compliance. Intergrated cables. Increased tire clearance. Wider rims. Disc brakes. Size specific carbon layups. Lightweight integrated seat tube clamps.

Sounding old yet?

As engineers converge on the single best all round answer... and the high end performance road bikes begin to look more and more alike... one has to wonder what is next? How will marketing sell you the “next big thing?” Or is the next (current) big thing long ago here... “specialization” (gravel, aero, endurance, etc)

Thoughts?

My only thought is that once the aero/disc/integrate movement completes it’s rounds... progress will continue to be made to shave off weight. Hardly original.

andreas
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm

by andreas

New frame material (graphite?), improved tolerances/mechanisms/cooling for disc brakes, changed regulations to allow for more aero optimalization, redesigned drivetrain to counter cross-chaining efficiency loss.

But the innovations that will have the largest impact in the future are probably the ones we can't imagine yet :)

by Weenie


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C36
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by C36

- Changes of standards to push large equipment renewal, the favorite from marketing dept. If public buy the idea. “Sure we need 200mm disc to gain more modulation and heat dissipation”.
- Continuous push for more integration to limit the spendings on other brands and expand the possibilities to sell value. Cannondale did it (with great success) 15+ years ago with the Coda Magic / Hollowgram and now we have it on cockpits and seat posts.
- Work on confort via controlled structural deformation
- If the UCI remains firm to remove any weight restriction after next olympics... then we will see lightness being sexy again.


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flying
Posts: 1932
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

RocketRacing wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:55 pm
As engineers converge on the single best all round answer... and the high end performance road bikes begin to look more and more alike...
I'm maybe from another era but frames would evoke more passion IMO when we were younger
These days its like a cookie cutter was lent to all "companies"...cant even call them builders/craftsmen anymore IMHO

Thankfully there are still some smaller craftsmen around & when my current frame needs changing I will look to those few.

This "talk" about "aero" "seconds shaved" etc etc...Truth is the vast majority of riders could never extract everything from a plain vanilla basic frame
let alone some whiz bang theoretical rocket frame. But .......

Just my 2cents & I in no way begrudge anyone who is attracted to these :wink:

schroeds
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:06 pm

by schroeds

flying wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:06 am
RocketRacing wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:55 pm
As engineers converge on the single best all round answer... and the high end performance road bikes begin to look more and more alike...
I'm maybe from another era but frames would evoke more passion IMO when we were younger
These days its like a cookie cutter was lent to all "companies"...cant even call them builders/craftsmen anymore IMHO

Thankfully there are still some smaller craftsmen around & when my current frame needs changing I will look to those few.

This "talk" about "aero" "seconds shaved" etc etc...Truth is the vast majority of riders could never extract everything from a plain vanilla basic frame
let alone some whiz bang theoretical rocket frame. But .......

Just my 2cents & I in no way begrudge anyone who is attracted to these :wink:
100000% agree

RyanH
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by RyanH

flying wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:06 am
I'm maybe from another era but frames would evoke more passion IMO when we were younger
These days its like a cookie cutter was lent to all "companies"...cant even call them builders/craftsmen anymore IMHO
Is that accurate though? I feel like there's significantly more variety in frames today than 30 years ago where nearly every frame was round tubed steel. If anything, back then it was subtle details that differentiated each frame and would be lost on most people (granted, that's not saying a lot because as far as my wife is concerned, all my bikes look the same...metal ones and all...).

spartan
Posts: 1286
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

in the steel era of the roadbike finish quality and lug work separated the top tier brands (italian) vs the mass produced frames from taiwan/usa.
future versions of today super aero bikes will have reduction of weight (venge is ahead of the curve) and improved lighter disc brakes. we will know when the new shimano dura ace is released next year. sram latest is a big failure. heavy/clunky/ugly. the sram fans boys are in denial .
Current Rides:

2018 Madone SLR DISC DI2 9XXX
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

flying
Posts: 1932
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

RyanH wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:01 am
Is that accurate though? I feel like there's significantly more variety in frames today than 30 years ago where nearly every frame was round tubed steel. If anything, back then it was subtle details that differentiated each frame and would be lost on most people (granted, that's not saying a lot because as far as my wife is concerned, all my bikes look the same...metal ones and all...).
I think it is accurate & when one thinks about all the TT bikes/road bikes/ track bikes & how they were built or how they looked it would be much more than round tubes & yes maybe subtle details would be lost on non riders but those like me that poured over winning magazine or World Cycling productions videos were in awe of such craftsmanship.

Lug work alone from master to master was impressive never mind the tubing both shapes & varied thickness etc.

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Alexbn921
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

spartan wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:21 am
in the steel era of the roadbike finish quality and lug work separated the top tier brands (italian) vs the mass produced frames from taiwan/usa.
future versions of today super aero bikes will have reduction of weight (venge is ahead of the curve) and improved lighter disc brakes. we will know when the new shimano dura ace is released next year. sram latest is a big failure. heavy/clunky/ugly. the sram fans boys are in denial .
I just got the sram stuff, so not real time on it yet. I think your timeline for Shimano 12 speed is optimistic. I bet it will closer to 3 years before it really hits the market.

AJS914
Posts: 3481
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I don't understand all the complaints about incremental forward progress. Nothing prevents people from not upgrading. You can ride a nice road bike for a decade or even two. I could still be riding my 1997 Litespeed with Campagnolo 9 speed and Mavic 13C rims but I choose to sell it and upgrade. I have zero regrets.

We get a constant stream of small changes but fundamentally road bikes haven't changed a lot since I started cycling many decades ago. The big changes that I see are:

Frame/parts materials. Carbon is still relatively new. I could see composite frames that are nearly indestrutible. Maybe they will be 3D printed? Prices should go down over the long term.

The biggest change I think will be in sensors and onboard telemetry. I could envision a heads up display integrating power, instant cda analysis, pedaling efficiency, etc. Maybe the bike eventually will auto shift based on power parameters, cadence, and terrain.

When you take all that to the next level you might have a personal AI coach onboard helping you with pacing on segments or during events. The AI will be hooked in and have access to all your training files, performance data, HRV, etc. Maybe this kind of aid will be banned by the UCI?

robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

spartan wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:21 am
in the steel era of the roadbike finish quality and lug work separated the top tier brands (italian) vs the mass produced frames from taiwan/usa.
future versions of today super aero bikes will have reduction of weight (venge is ahead of the curve) and improved lighter disc brakes. we will know when the new shimano dura ace is released next year. sram latest is a big failure. heavy/clunky/ugly. the sram fans boys are in denial .
It took a grand total of 6 posts for a discussion on the direction of future performance to descend to outright slagging of the current offering of a particular groupset manufacturer.

That's just *f##k* the Internet average.

mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

spartan wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:21 am
in the steel era of the roadbike finish quality and lug work separated the top tier brands (italian) vs the mass produced frames from taiwan/usa.
Except many of the top tier italian brands in the late 80s/early 90s (when i was dealing with them) had woefully poor quality. Looked really nice though.
They were also really really sniffy about warranty (or at least, the importers were). The "non-premium brands" were a) far less likely to exhibit a problem in the first place and b) far more receptive to actually dealing with the issue.

Methodical
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:40 pm

by Methodical

spartan wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:21 am
...sram latest is a big failure. heavy/clunky/ugly. the sram fans boys are in denial .
I'm a SRAM fan and I agree with you on the new eTap. No denial from me. It just doesn't attract me; the looks and definitely not the price tag.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic"

Trek Emonda SLR (Rage Red) - 6.27kg
'12 Trek Madone (Black) - 6.96kg
Fujee Espree (Maroon) - 11.02kg

RocketRacing
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Integrated computers/telemetry makes sense. Juat as some use integrated Telemetry, i could easily see brands intergrating full dash computers into a bike. Battery levels, twlemetry, built in lights, maybe even a rear camera.

I would hate it, just as i did for cars (how outdated it a 15 year old car with a built in infotainment system?). Iike cars, it would also creep towards weight and cost bloat, and complexity to repair.
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:10 am
I don't understand all the complaints about incremental forward progress. Nothing prevents people from not upgrading. You can ride a nice road bike for a decade or even two. I could still be riding my 1997 Litespeed with Campagnolo 9 speed and Mavic 13C rims but I choose to sell it and upgrade. I have zero regrets.

We get a constant stream of small changes but fundamentally road bikes haven't changed a lot since I started cycling many decades ago. The big changes that I see are:

Frame/parts materials. Carbon is still relatively new. I could see composite frames that are nearly indestrutible. Maybe they will be 3D printed? Prices should go down over the long term.

The biggest change I think will be in sensors and onboard telemetry. I could envision a heads up display integrating power, instant cda analysis, pedaling efficiency, etc. Maybe the bike eventually will auto shift based on power parameters, cadence, and terrain.

When you take all that to the next level you might have a personal AI coach onboard helping you with pacing on segments or during events. The AI will be hooked in and have access to all your training files, performance data, HRV, etc. Maybe this kind of aid will be banned by the UCI?

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tymon_tm
Posts: 2876
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

C36 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:49 pm
- Changes of standards to push large equipment renewal, the favorite from marketing dept. If public buy the idea. “Sure we need 200mm disc to gain more modulation and heat dissipation”.
- Continuous push for more integration to limit the spendings on other brands and expand the possibilities to sell value. Cannondale did it (with great success) 15+ years ago with the Coda Magic / Hollowgram and now we have it on cockpits and seat posts.
- Work on confort via controlled structural deformation
- If the UCI remains firm to remove any weight restriction after next olympics... then we will see lightness being sexy again.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
^this

IMHO introducing discs was just that - an attempt to force customers into a completely new standard. there wasn't and there won't be another "revolution" like this. it's a slam dunk really, as it requires a change in all three main areas - drivetrain, frameset and wheels. basically you're left with your pedals, saddle and bottle cages. everything else, including the cockpit, lands on ebay. I bet it's gonna fuel the sales for quite some time (given many are reluctant and it isn't that certain rim brakes will beome a niche o a retro thing) and it's years untill another big thing happens.

weight savings - sure, but these are kinda incorporated into bike design. integration is what we already see. comfort - this box has kinda been ticked by wider rims/tires. sure, stuff like Trek's Isospeed is great, but it's also what drives prices onto a whole another level, and adds complexity that isn't desired by most (although discs prove one can seek for simplicity and add complexity...)
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

by Weenie


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