New Campagnolo brakes clearance

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
xmashx
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:30 am

by xmashx

As the Campagnolo has already updated the brakes for the Super Record model (12-Speed) and they claim it's 28mm tires compatible, I am wondering if anyone can confirm it?

I'm considering to change my current brakes (Super Record Dual Pivot 2015-2019?) to the new model of SR DP if this would give me a chance to ride 25mm (a actual clearance between brakes skeleton and 25 mm tire is <2mm).

I verified the clearance between frame and 25mm tire and it's fine as it's about 4.0-4.5mm (closer to 4.5 though). So, anyone can confirm that:
- the new Campy SR Dual Pivot brakes have more clearance in height? What is actual difference between the new and old skeletons?
- the new brakes are compatible with the Campy groupset (2015-)? I can't think why actually they couldn't...

Bart

AJS914
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by AJS914

There have been a bunch of posts over the last few months indicating that the Chorus or non-series 11 speed calipers have a little bit more height clearance. The other thing you can do is use a tire that is less tall.

by Weenie


Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

On my fork the new sr has a bit less vertical clearance than the old sr. I could just barely use 27mm tubs, not anymore.

KarlC
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by KarlC

What frame will you be using them on ?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

What they don’t say is that if you’re mounting them in the same hole as they came from (an existing frame), is that you will not have any more clearance than the prior Record/SR calipers. In fact, it will be slightly less (about a millimeter or slightly less). The brake shoes will end up mounting a bit higher in their slots, but that doesn’t help in the clearance department. A frame with a higher mounting bridge is the only way you’ll squeak more clearance with the new brakes. So, if it’s more clearance you need, in your existing frame, you won’t get it. Unless you move to the Chorus calipers. But if your ok with the clearance now, and just want the updated clean, non skeleton look, then go for it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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KarlC
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by KarlC

Calnago wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:59 pm
What they don’t say is that if you’re mounting them in the same hole as they came from (an existing frame), is that you will not have any more clearance than the prior Record/SR calipers. In fact, it will be slightly less (about a millimeter or slightly less). The brake shoes will end up mounting a bit higher in their slots, but that doesn’t help in the clearance department. A frame with a higher mounting bridge is the only way you’ll squeak more clearance with the new brakes. So, if it’s more clearance you need, in your existing frame, you won’t get it. Unless you move to the Chorus calipers. But if your ok with the clearance now, and just want the updated clean, non skeleton look, then go for it.
I need to confirm this and post some photos but on my F8 I did not get any more clearance with the R12 brakes, BUT on my Seven 622 SLX I DID get more clearance !

.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

More clearance than what? Did you have SR skeleton brakes on your Seven prior to the new SR’s. If so, don’t know how you could possibly get more clearance all else being equal. Did you use two serrated washers between the mounting boss and the brake caliper instead of just one? Did you test with exactly the same rim/tire combo? I tested it like this...
Used a Vlanderen where I had just enough clearance (not useable, but it didn’t touch) with the pre 12sp brakes. Remember to adjust them before you check clearance. If you’re using different width rims, then the narrower rims will yield more height clearance because the brakes will be adjusted closer to the rim and hence the arms above the wheel will be higher. Anyway, back to my test... then I mounted and adjusted the new brakes with the exact same wheel/tire combination and there was not enough clearance for it to spin completely freely. It’s not much different, but if you’re mounting in the same spot in the same frame, the brake shoes may set up a bit higher in the slots but you won’t have as much clearance between the tire and the caliper arms.
Last edited by Calnago on Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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KarlC
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by KarlC

Calnago, see the below photos, 1st is of Record 11 2nd is Record 12 with the adjustment srew fully out. Both are on my Seven 622 SLX, both are DP with all orginal washers, nothing done from normal mounting. Both are held fully closed against the same Zipp 303 FC wheel with a Veloflex Vlaanderen 27 tubular tire at 80 PSI, both have all orginal.

Let me know if you think I should try this any differnt ways ? Thx Karl

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hard to say, could even be camera angle. Did you use the Allan key “wand” test to really get a good measurement? I agree your pic makes it look like the new caliper has more clearance, yet you said this was reversed in a different bike. How could that possibly be? If it has more clearance on one, it would have more clearance on the other as well. So there’s a disconnect there. Doesn’t look like you have the same brake shoes or pads in play in both either. I don’t know but I tested to some pretty fine clearances using SR (not Record), and without moving the bike or camera angle. I’ve got pics but haven’t posted anything. But the real test was the actual physical touching of the arms of the caliper to the tire with the new calipers versus the old. I’d say there’s less clearance on the new, if mounted in the equivalent hole on the same frame. Not much less, a millimeter or less I’d say, but it was less. I wish going forward manufacturers would raise the mounting hole for standard rim brakes by about 2-3mm. I know it’s always been desirable to keep the supportive bridge as close as you can to the tire, but an extra 2-3mm higher would be welcome with today’s bigger tire preferences. Although I think 25-28mm is about as big as you’d ever want to go on a nice road bike, before you’d really have to start considering discs with 30mm plus tires. Knobbies too, if you want to go off pavement, but that’s what they made mountain bikes for. Something very special about a pure road bike in my eyes... I hope we never lose it completely.
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Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

KarlC
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by KarlC

Ok Cal, maybe this will help. I tried to keep the photos and camera angles close to the same and I used the same brake shoes and pads on all of the below photos.

Once again all of the below photos are on my Seven 622 SLX, all with the same brake shoes and pads. All are held fully closed against the same Zipp 303 FC wheel with a Veloflex Vlaanderen 27 tubular tire at 80 PSI.

1st photo is Record 11, (I could not fit a 2mm allen in, so maybe there is 1.5mm space)
2nd photo is Record 12 with the adjustment screw fully in (this is touching the tire)
3nd photo is Record 12 with the adjustment screw fully out (I did fit a 4mm allen in)

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Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Weird, I don't know what to say about this. My experience was exactly the same as Cals. I could just barely use Vlaanderens (had 1mm of space which worked but would often notify me about leaves twigs and small stones). With the new brakes the tires were physically rubbing the metal at their higher spots. I'm not sure how I could tweak the arm further up, the mounting bolt was never exposed like in your middle photo. Perhaps shaving about 1mm from each brake washer could make it work for me on a perfectly clean road, but in the end I decided I prefer the feel of 25 tubs. Nimbler handling, easier to lean into corners.
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RichTheRoadie
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by RichTheRoadie

KarlC wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:23 am
{snip}
2nd photo is Record 12 with the adjustment screw fully in (this is touching the tire)
3nd photo is Record 12 with the adjustment screw fully out (I did fit a 4mm allen in)
Wait, what - the new calipers are adjustable? Where is this adjustment screw?

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Lightweenie
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by Lightweenie

In my case the problem is not so much the bridge but how much the calipers open when "open" them from the lever.

More specifically: I am running Chorus skeleton brakes, and have built a winter wheelset with the new Mavic Open UST rims and run Schwalbe One's 28mm tubeless (the rim specs say at least 28mm have to be fitted). The setup works really great, I don't need to change anything but the pads when switching from my Boras to the UST's, and there are also absolutely no clearance issues at all, as long as you don't remove the wheels or want to place them back in. Removing or replacing the wheels means opening up the caliper from the button on the lever, then deflating the tire to 1 or 2 bars in order to get the tire through the pads...

I can live with that but it is not optimal. I would wish for a slightly larger opening of the caliper through the lever button. Do you think the new brakes and/or levers would help with that?

KarlC
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by KarlC

Cal, I went back and checked my other frame, my Pina Dogma F8, and this time I used the same brake shoes and pads and made sure the R12 adjustment screw was ALL they way out. So as you know see below the R12 brakes do provide a bit more room even on the F8 with it low brake bridge. Sorry for the confusion on my end.

Once again the below photos are on my Pina Dogma F8, both with the same brake shoes and pads. both are held fully closed against the same Zipp 303 FC wheel with a Veloflex Vlaanderen 27 tubular tire at 80 PSI.

1st photo is Record 11 (this is touching the tire)
2nd photo is Record 12 with the adjustment screw fully out (I did fit a 2mm allen in)

In the end I am going to be using the Pina Most brakes on my F8 as they provide the most clearance and adjust like the Campy 12 brakes do.

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Alexandrumarian
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Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

By adjustment screw you mean the one for fine centering? I guess it makes sense now, you use that to send the arm as high as it goes. But then again, one needs to resort to the mounting bolt for fine tuning? That would kinda suck.

by Weenie


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