There is no more rim brake technology....

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fogman
Posts: 956
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 pm

by fogman

mattr wrote:I'm looking for a new road bike, i have been for a couple of years.
I have a short list, bikes that have suitable geometry, price and spec.
The list gets shorter every year as manufacturers discontinue models I'm interested in. It used to have 8 bikes on it, now down to 4.

I went into a dealer last week, as they stock the "full range" of a model I'm interested in.

Apparently, full range doesn't include any rim brake models.
Further digging reveals that last year they sold Pretty much even disc/rim. One of their biggest selling road models.
The importer has decided that the rim brake version won't sell. So they aren't bringing any in.

Except for the one I've seen him riding around on.
:(

There's a good chance that I'll have no choice at the price/spec i want and the fit i need other than disc.
One of the hidden downsides to divorce. :D
If you wait another couple of years, the manufacturers may discontinue the final 4 models you are interested in. Then you won’t have to buy a bike at all. Image


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It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

fogman wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 pm

If you wait another couple of years, the manufacturers may discontinue the final 4 models you are interested in. Then you won’t have to buy a bike at all. Image

Yep, all they see is another person who hasn’t bought a rim-brake bike in years.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

RTW wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 pm
Wait, you’ve been deciding for two years which bike to buy, and the manufacturers aren’t building what you want (or do, but you can’t or won’t buy it). How do they know that you like these bikes if you don’t buy them?! You currently aren’t a purchaser!
Did you read the whole post? Or just cherrypick to suit your own needs? I was an imminent purchaser (with cash in my pocket) then my situation changed, now i'm waiting for everything to settle down (life, not bike manufacturers ranges), then i'll be a purchaser again. Except things are moving faster than things are settling down.
Last edited by mattr on Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:33 pm
fogman wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 pm

If you wait another couple of years, the manufacturers may discontinue the final 4 models you are interested in. Then you won’t have to buy a bike at all. Image

Yep, all they see is another person who hasn’t bought a rim-brake bike in years.
TBH, depending on what happens regarding new bike/life/funds, i might a) not buy a bike at all or b) not end up with a rim brake bike.

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Beaver
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm
If you only ride in the flats, what do you care about the main penalty of disc brakes...weight? I like that my rim is not a consumable, only my rotor is in case my pad suddenly gets contaminated with a piece of hard debris.
Disc is more expensive, heavier, less aero, more complicated and I don't need its advantages over rim brakes with my riding conditions. :noidea:

Even rim wear is no problem for me. With grey Enve pads there's even no dirt on the brake tracks. Riding black SwissStop pads on Aluminium rims in rain and dirt, yes, there will be wear, but it will take a while until the rims have to be replaced. :noidea:

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Beaver
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

tymon_tm wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm
and? is this supposed to make me pick one of them? as I said - we all have choice. but if someone decides to limit his due to whatever reason he comes up with, that's his problem. manufacturers are forcing discs, that's hardly breaking news. but I'm not going to put up with the situation where I gotta ride what they want me to ride, and spend my money on what they want me to buy. it's a complete nonsense. as I said - currently anyone will find a bike that suits his needs and spec it accordingly. the only downside - for those who care - is it might not have the desired logo
No one forces someone to buy something, true. But the choice gets limited more and more and not any bike will do the job. Not every geo will match your body, maybe you want a special colour, a certain weight, a certain bb standard, a certain tire clearance, direct mount brakes or not, internal cable routing or not, internal seatpost clamp or not and so on. For me there's only a handful of matching bikes and the list just got shorter with the new SuperSix Evo (not so fond of the looks so far, but may it looks better in real life) and Addict (disc only)...

I have already stocked parts for many years, frames will have to follow, it seems...

Js2
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm

by Js2

You can always purchased a used bike of the discontinued model you want, probably get a better deal than anything new. Use the savings to swap out the components and re-sell the ones you don't want. Win-win imo.

fxx
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

by fxx


RTW wrote:
fxx wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:58 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
the only downside - for those who care - is it might not have the desired logo
Isn't that what most bankers, lawyers and doctors want and willing to pay? And manufacturers know that, so people like you can be ignored.

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What have bankers, lawyers and doctors got to do with it?
The lawyers, banker's and doctors represent the upper end of the market and surprise, surprise are very particular of the brand they buy and brag about, the manufacturers always pay attention to that end of the market and that end of the market is going disc forcing out the lower end of market to follow.

So you cannot just brush it off as something trivial.

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exFictitiouZ
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:20 pm

by exFictitiouZ

just chiming in with my two cents here, replying directly to the thread question.

I think with direct mount rim brakes (preferrably with the brake booster in R8000, R91000) , aluminium textured brake tracks (e.g. Exalith, Turbine), slick stainless inner cable, polymer coated outer cable (e.g. BC-9000), rim brakes are pretty much faultless. I'm currently running this setup with my bike and I don't think my brakes are lacking in anyway... wet or dry. I can hardly think of any way to improve upon the technology in its current state.

of course there's a caveat and the achilles' heel of rim brakes will always be full carbon clinchers. personally I think FCCs are vanity products; by having a 50mm deep wheels at ~1,400g you sacrifice braking confidence (par only a handful of great wheel manufacturers), but instead of switching to disks where the whole system is around +500g more than the rim equivalent, we also have Mavic Cosmic Exalith or HED Jets at around the same rim depth, only +200g heavier, and of course with braking confidence.
Last edited by exFictitiouZ on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MyM3Coupe
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm

by MyM3Coupe

exFictitiouZ wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:43 pm
I think with direct mount rim brakes (preferrably with the brake booster in R8000, R91000) , aluminium textured brake tracks (e.g. Exalith, Turbine), slick stainless inner cable, polymer coated outer cable (e.g. BC-9000), rim brakes are pretty much faultless. I'm currently running this setup with my bike and I don't think my brakes are lacking in anyway... wet or dry. I can hardly think of any way to improve upon the technology in its current state.
Agreed. I'm running non-direct mount Dura Ace 9100 on my bike and they are far more powerful than required. Discs are simply a marketing ploy to get folks who think they look cool.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

It'd be interesting to have hydro levers pushing fluid to updated Magura rim calipers on direct mount frames-you'd likely get a little less weight than disc brakes, superior hydro modulation and likely increased tire clearance compared to a cable rim caliper.

Bigger Gear
Posts: 523
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Location: Wet coast, Canada

by Bigger Gear

bremerradkurier wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:29 pm
It'd be interesting to have hydro levers pushing fluid to updated Magura rim calipers on direct mount frames-you'd likely get a little less weight than disc brakes, superior hydro modulation and likely increased tire clearance compared to a cable rim caliper.
Just my humble opinion, but I think for many people the major drawback to disc brakes is the added complexity of hydraulics, so adding hydraulics to rim brakes seems to only add complexity but not actually improve braking by any massive amount.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

Bigger Gear wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:39 pm
bremerradkurier wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:29 pm
It'd be interesting to have hydro levers pushing fluid to updated Magura rim calipers on direct mount frames-you'd likely get a little less weight than disc brakes, superior hydro modulation and likely increased tire clearance compared to a cable rim caliper.
Just my humble opinion, but I think for many people the major drawback to disc brakes is the added complexity of hydraulics, so adding hydraulics to rim brakes seems to only add complexity but not actually improve braking by any massive amount.
I had later model Magura rim hydros on my messenger bike in Germany-after initial set up, they were really easy to maintain; pads snapped in and out, you had a QR to remove one brake cylinder for wheel changes that wouldn't change pad to rim orientation, there was a dial on the lever to account for pad wear, and they were super easy to bleed although not really needed that often.

In addition, they had enough power that you could spread the seat stays on most frames.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 3446
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

What's interesting is to see how they develop frames with braking force in mind, talking disc brakes.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


Gunnar
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 6:03 am

by Gunnar

bremerradkurier wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:29 pm
It'd be interesting to have hydro levers pushing fluid to updated Magura rim calipers on direct mount frames-you'd likely get a little less weight than disc brakes, superior hydro modulation and likely increased tire clearance compared to a cable rim caliper.
Sram actually makes some, but like others have said one of the major downsides to hydraulics is their complexity, the main benefit to disc brakes is the fact that you are separating the brake surface from the rim and keeping it further from the road, although the hydraulics also have some benefits in terms of brake power and feel. The thing about hydraulic rim brakes is that the possible weight savings are pretty minimal and you don't get any of the benefits of discs. IMO you'd be better off with a set of ee brakes which are lighter and cost less while maintaining great feel, modulation and break power. :noidea:
https://www.racycles.com/product/detail/6980

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