There is no more rim brake technology....

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Beaver
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

DarthKrutall wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:46 am
Tbh I think the whole weight issue/discussion with discs will be non-existent either with the next gen of groupsets or as late as the one after. Likewise I can only see the cost increase over rim will only ever get less as more riders adopt the disc technology and the price becomes on par with that of the more traditional rim brake versions
Disc brakes for MTBs exist since 25 years - there will be no great progress regarding weight or costs. Low end bikes will still run rim brakes for a very long time.
DarthKrutall wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:46 am
Truth is, you, me, your mate on the Sunday club run have pretty much zero influence in regards to what the manufactures produce and sell
If Shimano, SRAM and Campy only released pink group sets you would end up buying it if it was all that was available. That’s where discs are going
Oh yes, we decide - at the cash out. If only few people would buy disc brakes they would stay a niche product. But they use marketing very effectively to push it on the market.
DarthKrutall wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:46 am
Don’t be surprised if Dura ace and Ultegra only comes in discs net gen, likewise don’t be surprised if those new group set weights come in lower than the current gen rim brake versions
Shimano has proclaimed to continue developing rim brakes... Campy is conservative anyway and SRAM hasn't ditched rim brakes for AXS...

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

SRAM also hasn’t updated it’s single-pivot caliper in 6 years, though they did release a dual-pivot/direct-mount caliper 2 years ago.

ancker
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by ancker

I'm always amused that the people who think their echo-chamber anti-something niche sways the industry.

Steel is real, aluminum will fatigue and wear out.
Aliminum is strong, no plastic (carbon) bikes!
Chainline and efficiency losses for 9, no 10, no 11, no 12 speed will make it a non-starter. Just ride a triple.
Clinchers are dangerous, a sudden flat will cause tons of crashes, tubular is the best.
Tubeless is dangerous, clinchers are way safer.
Electronic drivetrains are a fad and will never shift as great as mechanical.
Disc is too heavy, dangerous, ugly, etc. They have no place on a road bike.

The fact you consistenty state you'll ride your 2010 Lynskey with Red 10sp on tubulars until you die/need an e-bike/etc means you're not buying.
People who buy bikes drive the industry. Clearly all those things above move product, otherwise they would have been scrapped.

Certainly marketing has a lot to do with this, but people still need to buy the products to confirm the marketing was worth it.

jasjas
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

If there are no new rim brake groupsets, then you can have all the custom builders you want but no one is going spend a fortune on a frame only to stick a 2nd grp set of ebay on it.

Lets see what Canyon do when they update Aeroad/Ultimate? i'd bet they don't have a rim option, and neither will other manufacturers.

The RnD is going to go into lighter better disk frames and lighter better disk groupsets, it aint going to go into producing bikes i like, i'm in the minority

zefs
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Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

ancker wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:16 pm
I'm always amused that the people who think their echo-chamber anti-something niche sways the industry.
Certainly marketing has a lot to do with this, but people still need to buy the products to confirm the marketing was worth it.
Maybe if cities invested in cycling infrastructure more people would be buying bikes as a transportation method, which would be more profitable for the industry overall?

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Beaver
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by Beaver

ancker wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:16 pm
I'm always amused that the people who think their echo-chamber anti-something niche sways the industry.
Am I really one of "those people"? ;) I spent a lot of time recommending wide rims, which were also a niche and now standard. The problem I have is being forced to buy something, that doesn't have the clear benefits to outweigh the drawbacks. With 70kg in the flats, riding only involuntary in the rain, rim brakes are all I need. All the accidents I had were because of drunk people, another brake system doesn't make my life saver or better. ;) I also don't need rims with 25mm inside width...

The bike should serve it's purpose, which will be different for everybody, so therefore needs to be a choice.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

^no, you're not being forced. maybe you think you are (why? cause them ads yell discs? cause your pals look down on you?) but the truth is - we're currently in the position where we have it all availible. all the stuff, all the combinations. for this season I got a top aero bike with mech and rims. and the earth hasn't shattered. sure, the salesguy was a dick, because I bought it at a new shop and he treated me like someone who doesn't have a clue. but it's not that only newcomers buy bikes. I'd say it's the other way round - it's the more seasoned riders who change equipment more often and they kinda sorta know what they want/need. if they give in to marketing, or *trend*, it's only their fault. whenever I hear "I had to sell all my bikes" (because of discs) I don't know whether to cry or laugh. it's worse than my wife saying she's got no bag to carry/wear, because tens of them hanging in the closet are suddenly outta fashion
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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Beaver
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by Beaver

^Didn't you notice the increase of disc only bikes recently (Venge, SystemSix, Izalco Max, Addict)? ;)

fxx
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by fxx

Beaver wrote:^Didn't you notice the increase of disc only bikes recently (Venge, SystemSix, Izalco Max, Addict)? ;)
Like frogs in slow boiling water.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Beaver wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:09 pm
^Didn't you notice the increase of disc only bikes recently (Venge, SystemSix, Izalco Max, Addict)? ;)
and? is this supposed to make me pick one of them? as I said - we all have choice. but if someone decides to limit his due to whatever reason he comes up with, that's his problem. manufacturers are forcing discs, that's hardly breaking news. but I'm not going to put up with the situation where I gotta ride what they want me to ride, and spend my money on what they want me to buy. it's a complete nonsense. as I said - currently anyone will find a bike that suits his needs and spec it accordingly. the only downside - for those who care - is it might not have the desired logo
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

fxx
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

by fxx


tymon_tm wrote:
the only downside - for those who care - is it might not have the desired logo
Isn't that what most bankers, lawyers and doctors want and willing to pay? And manufacturers know that, so people like you can be ignored.

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mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

I'm looking for a new road bike, i have been for a couple of years.
I have a short list, bikes that have suitable geometry, price and spec.
The list gets shorter every year as manufacturers discontinue models I'm interested in. It used to have 8 bikes on it, now down to 4.

I went into a dealer last week, as they stock the "full range" of a model I'm interested in.

Apparently, full range doesn't include any rim brake models.
Further digging reveals that last year they sold Pretty much even disc/rim. One of their biggest selling road models.
The importer has decided that the rim brake version won't sell. So they aren't bringing any in.

Except for the one I've seen him riding around on.
:(

There's a good chance that I'll have no choice at the price/spec i want and the fit i need other than disc.
One of the hidden downsides to divorce. :D

RTW
in the industry
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by RTW

fxx wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:58 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
the only downside - for those who care - is it might not have the desired logo
Isn't that what most bankers, lawyers and doctors want and willing to pay? And manufacturers know that, so people like you can be ignored.

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What have bankers, lawyers and doctors got to do with it?

RTW
in the industry
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by RTW

mattr wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:14 pm
I'm looking for a new road bike, i have been for a couple of years.
I have a short list, bikes that have suitable geometry, price and spec.
The list gets shorter every year as manufacturers discontinue models I'm interested in. It used to have 8 bikes on it, now down to 4.

I went into a dealer last week, as they stock the "full range" of a model I'm interested in.
Wait, you’ve been deciding for two years which bike to buy, and the manufacturers aren’t building what you want (or do, but you can’t or won’t buy it). How do they know that you like these bikes if you don’t buy them?! You currently aren’t a purchaser!

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Beaver wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:10 pm

Am I really one of "those people"? ;) I spent a lot of time recommending wide rims, which were also a niche and now standard. The problem I have is being forced to buy something, that doesn't have the clear benefits to outweigh the drawbacks. With 70kg in the flats, riding only involuntary in the rain, rim brakes are all I need. All the accidents I had were because of drunk people, another brake system doesn't make my life saver or better. ;) I also don't need rims with 25mm inside width...

The bike should serve it's purpose, which will be different for everybody, so therefore needs to be a choice.

If you only ride in the flats, what do you care about the main penalty of disc brakes...weight? I like that my rim is not a consumable, only my rotor is in case my pad suddenly gets contaminated with a piece of hard debris.

Beaver wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:09 pm
^Didn't you notice the increase of disc only bikes recently (Venge, SystemSix, Izalco Max, Addict)? ;)

If people truly want rim brake bikes, that is Specialized’s, Cannondale’s, Focus’s and Scott’s loss.

by Weenie


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