Cervelo S3 vs S5

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
zachspeed
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:54 am

by zachspeed

I am looking for aero comparisons between Cervelo S3 and S5 (2018/19 models). I have not been able to find anything.

by Weenie


none
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 pm

by none

Seems pretty obvious that S5 is more aero than S3, just by the form-fitting seattube & downtube that hug the shape of the wheels.
Are you looking for specific number comparison of the drag co-efficient between the two frames?

zachspeed
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:54 am

by zachspeed

Yes. I am looking for exact numbers. I have a suspicion that the diffenrence is less than you might think.

I have never found the exact numbers but starement like these:

Cervelo website (and other): The new S5 is 5,5 watts faster than the previous S5.

Epic-cycles.co.uk. The new S3 is "Faster than the 2018 S5 in fact."

Combine these two statements and you get that the new S3 is at most 5,4 watts slower than the new S5.

But I would like more evidence that that is correct.
none wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:56 am
Seems pretty obvious that S5 is more aero than S3, just by the form-fitting seattube & downtube that hug the shape of the wheels.
Are you looking for specific number comparison of the drag co-efficient between the two frames?

alcatraz
Posts: 2214
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Try not to obsess about marketing hype. It's exaggerated.

Sure an S5 is a fraction faster than an S3. Is it worth a lot of money? Good question.

Depends on what you want to do with the bike.

Put the S3 to S5 money on aero cycling kit and you'll probably save more watts.

Hexsense
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Frameset aerodynamic difference between S3 and S5 itself is small,
However, S3's head tube is taller for the same reach, or should i say the reach is shorter than S5 for the same stack? That may or may not imply more relax fit of the rider on it.

Anyway, you can almost always down size and use longer stem to compensate for their relatively more relax geometry without interfering bike handling, providing that 5mm shorter front center wheelbase of S3 vs S5 on the same size plus a bit more from downsizing wouldn't cause too severe toe overlap.
Kudo to Cervelo for their usage of 4 different fork offset across all sizes to preserve trail value of all size to be the same.

I'd base my decision between S3 and S5 more on geometry. If S3 fit you better than S5 then perfect. If other way around, i might skip S3.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Well, it would be interesting to know the differences in carbon weave (composite), difference in patches used and differences in weight.
My guess is all models with 3 are lower grade carbon, way less patches and also a more crude layup.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

stevec1975
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:37 pm
Location: London

by stevec1975

I went on looks (I prefer the S3 front end over the S5) - Aero will be as close run thing between the 2.

robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

zachspeed wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Combine these two statements and you get that the new S3 is at most 5,4 watts slower than the new S5.
Jeez stop worrying over minuscule wattage savings.. They will be roughly the same, and unless you're riding a World Tour, it will make no difference at all for you regardless of whether it's 5,4 watts, 3 watts, or 7 watts.

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VTR1000SP2
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

If you have a look at the whitepaper for the new S5 (https://www.cervelo.com/media/gene-cms/ ... aper_1.pdf) it shows that 5.5W difference between the current S5 (assume it's the Dura-Ace Di2 with ENVE wheels) vs the 2014 S5 with AB04 bar (is it the one with HED wheels?) but I can't find anything comparing the new S3 to the old S5.

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kgt
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

robeambro wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 pm
zachspeed wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Combine these two statements and you get that the new S3 is at most 5,4 watts slower than the new S5.
Jeez stop worrying over minuscule wattage savings.. They will be roughly the same, and unless you're riding a World Tour, it will make no difference at all for you regardless of whether it's 5,4 watts, 3 watts, or 7 watts.
It does not matter at a World Tour level either. Many pros ride non-aero frames and they are doing fine. Even among the GC contenders many are on non-aero frames with rim brakes, exposed cables etc.

robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

kgt wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:47 pm
robeambro wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 pm
zachspeed wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Combine these two statements and you get that the new S3 is at most 5,4 watts slower than the new S5.
Jeez stop worrying over minuscule wattage savings.. They will be roughly the same, and unless you're riding a World Tour, it will make no difference at all for you regardless of whether it's 5,4 watts, 3 watts, or 7 watts.
It does not matter at a World Tour level either. Many pros ride non-aero frames and they are doing fine. Even among the GC contenders many are on non-aero frames with rim brakes, exposed cables etc.
Yes but for them it would be reasonable to obsess over these little details. And it's fine if one wants an aero bike because whatever reasons, but once one has ascertained that there's around 5 watts difference between the two bikes, what's the point of knowing whether it is 5, 6 or 7 watts? I don't know..

Mep
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 4:11 pm

by Mep

Why try to impose your own views on the OP? OP wants to make a decision based on specific numbers, I can respect that. That said, if you actually go by the marketing numbers it's quite a confusing story. Based on memory when the 2019 S5 and S3 were released, it was said that the S3 is 13w faster than its predecessor and the S5 is 5w faster than its predecessor. The 2018 S3 is 4w slower than the 2018 S5. So that actually makes the new S3 faster than both the old and new S5, if you believe the marketing numbers. Maybe that's enough information for you to conclude that the difference is smaller than you imagine and come to a decision. But it does seem strange if that was actually the case, it would be nice to see some actual test numbers.

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tymon_tm
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

Cervelos are becoming hugely popular amongst my 'buddies' (although they ruin them with discs and di2, and none of them is a dentist!) and their collective impression is - S3 is mighty fast. one dude who switched to S3 from previous S5 says it's just a better bike. no numbers in that, but these are guys who race, some of them even have some results, so I respect their opinion.

although when I switched with one of them briefly for like an hour during a ride, he said the SLR's a WOW bike (and it should be for twice the price lol). my impressions on S3 - it's helluva nice, and if had tried it out earlier (and if it's paintjob wasn't so ugly) I would've seriously considered getting one instead of Madone. it feels properly aero, it's a bit shorter, but just a tad more agile (which is good thing if you want to do some climbing as well). of course different wheels, a bit different position etc don't make for a good comparison, nevertheless I think Cervelo might've made the S5 a better bike than it's flagship S5. and all things considered, the S3 might just be *the best* bike out there...
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Mep wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:05 pm
Why try to impose your own views on the OP?
Because the view -brought forward by marketing departments- that 1/2w is important for us, is totally wrong and must not be supported.

For example there’s plenty of people who choose the SystemSix exclusively because it’s 2-3w faster than the competition in a wind tunnel, which is nonsensical, and I don’t think it’s good practice to encourage people to think like this.

By not saying anything we are implicitly telling the OP that he’s right in obsessing over whether the difference is 3w or 6w.

Had he said that he’s got no clue as to the aero properties of the two bikes I’d say fair enough, these are the studies and there’s such and such difference, but since he’s already deduced that the difference is ~5w, the rest is utterly unimportant.
Last edited by robeambro on Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cheers!
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by Cheers!

which frameset is lighter for the same size?

by Weenie


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