Road short cage RD with a 9-46t cassette!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

Nefarious86 wrote:
andreszucs wrote:
Calnago wrote:
andreszucs wrote: To have a context of why I have this setup...it’s because I don’t have 3 fingers on my right hand (was born without it) so STI’s don’t really work for me, I can’t reach the shifters and brake lever as well and I have to unsafely rotate my hand too much, so this setup at least gives me the chance to use dropbars with more confidence...saving lots of weight with it.
This piece of info changes a lot of things with regards to options for shifting and your setup. I’ve gone through the various configurations of different ways you can set up Di2 and EPS. I have no use for things like synchroshift, semi synchroshift, or Campy’s derivatives of the same thing. BUT, for someone with a physical handicap such as you have, you could actually configure a single shifter to control ALL aspects of shifting, front and rear. And so, while I’m completely indifferent to electronic shifting in the normal course of things, I can see it being a huge benefit for someone such as yourself perhaps. And for some, it might even make the difference between being able to ride or not being able to ride at all.
Yes I’ve tried electronic ultegra before, it does solve the shifting side for me, but the assembly is way too big and I can’t reach the brake levers without rotating my hand away from the base, it’s unsafe. The MTB Magura lever is way smaller and I’m able to reach the lever either from the top or the drops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Have you tried the newer generation levers? The have much better reach adjustment on the levers.

You could even run a 1x11 setup with your modified brake levers using the SW-R9150 buttons mounted on the inside of your printed hoods with a satellite climbing shifter near the stem and an XTR rear mech. Yes it will be a weight penalty but will be infinitely more usable in any hand position.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Yes and yes, electronic would help in many ways, I’ve also contemplated xshifter, but I just want to keep everything mechanical, cheaper, lighter, reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

by Weenie


User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

Nefarious86 wrote:
andreszucs wrote:
Calnago wrote:
andreszucs wrote: To have a context of why I have this setup...it’s because I don’t have 3 fingers on my right hand (was born without it) so STI’s don’t really work for me, I can’t reach the shifters and brake lever as well and I have to unsafely rotate my hand too much, so this setup at least gives me the chance to use dropbars with more confidence...saving lots of weight with it.
This piece of info changes a lot of things with regards to options for shifting and your setup. I’ve gone through the various configurations of different ways you can set up Di2 and EPS. I have no use for things like synchroshift, semi synchroshift, or Campy’s derivatives of the same thing. BUT, for someone with a physical handicap such as you have, you could actually configure a single shifter to control ALL aspects of shifting, front and rear. And so, while I’m completely indifferent to electronic shifting in the normal course of things, I can see it being a huge benefit for someone such as yourself perhaps. And for some, it might even make the difference between being able to ride or not being able to ride at all.
Yes I’ve tried electronic ultegra before, it does solve the shifting side for me, but the assembly is way too big and I can’t reach the brake levers without rotating my hand away from the base, it’s unsafe. The MTB Magura lever is way smaller and I’m able to reach the lever either from the top or the drops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Have you tried the newer generation levers? The have much better reach adjustment on the levers.

You could even run a 1x11 setup with your modified brake levers using the SW-R9150 buttons mounted on the inside of your printed hoods with a satellite climbing shifter near the stem and an XTR rear mech. Yes it will be a weight penalty but will be infinitely more usable in any hand position.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
ImageImage



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Did you ever have a look at the hope split braking system?

Could probably be integrated into their V-Twin offering (V-Single?) And work both front and rear brakes (with adjustable bias IIRC) from one mechanical lever.

User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

mattr wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:34 pm
Did you ever have a look at the hope split braking system?

Could probably be integrated into their V-Twin offering (V-Single?) And work both front and rear brakes (with adjustable bias IIRC) from one mechanical lever.
Thanks, that would be adding complexitity, those Magura brakes are suiting my hands well. thanks again.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

JUst had a little google anyway, apparently a one off for a sponsored rider.

User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

mattr wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:39 pm
JUst had a little google anyway, apparently a one off for a sponsored rider.
I think I remember seeing this, yes that wasn't for mass production.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I did not say the chain would wear faster op but wear would adversely affect shifting sooner. Details details and I am not afraid of losing sales I dont sell any of this stuff you are using. The OP just wants to hear from people that agree with him.

User avatar
Klaster_1
Posts: 786
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
Location: Russia

by Klaster_1

This is awesome. If I were to attempt something similar, I'd try RD-R9100 GS because it has more appropriate geometry and can clear wider range cassettes then Red without any modifications. To shift, you can use a Shimano TT bar end shifter, just like what you planned with SRAM. I'd stick with Xshifter, but it's heavier (~140g complete).

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I was wondering about the choice of brake levers. Seeing your hand explains why you dont use the hoods. That's why I had not commented on that. I figured there must be a reason not explained.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Why mount those magura levers on bull horns. Bull horns can be lighter.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

The new shimano grx rear derailleur is meant for 42t cassette sprockets with 1x. So it might work with a 46t sprocket.

You could then use an shimano 11 speed bar end shifter mounted In the bar end or on a Paul thumbie adapter.

User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

Thanks for the comments everyone.
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 am
The OP just wants to hear from people that agree with him.
Not at all. I've agreed (I think it was from you prior comment) that the extra distance with the upper pulley might be adding more chain deflexion, therefore perhaps a millisecond delay to shift, make sense. But I don't mind that milisecond, lets say that with chain wear it gets worse I can always 'overshift' with my thumb to go up, just a little extra push until the chain is on the next bigger cog, as long as the chain can drop to the next smaler cog when I shift down this setup is totally manageble, besides it would be time to replace the chain anyways. I still don't agree that everything will wear faster, I really don't see a reason for it.
Klaster_1 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:43 am
I'd try RD-R9100 GS because it has more appropriate geometry and can clear wider range cassettes then Red without any modifications.
Too heavy! :D
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 am
I was wondering about the choice of brake levers. Seeing your hand explains why you dont use the hoods. That's why I had not commented on that. I figured there must be a reason not explained.
Yes, missing the 3 fingers and only having the little finger to brake, my hand have a hard time wrapping around standard hoods. I need a small diameter grip in order for this to work.
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am
Why mount those magura levers on bull horns. Bull horns can be lighter.
I'd like to have all the hand positions of a drop bar, this is the third time that I'm giving a go on drops, unsuccessful in the past just because for the size of the road levers, this time I think it will be a permanent adoption.
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:08 am
The new shimano grx rear derailleur is meant for 42t cassette sprockets with 1x. So it might work with a 46t sprocket.
You could then use an shimano 11 speed bar end shifter mounted In the bar end or on a Paul thumbie adapter.
Too heavy! :D ...shoud be called shimaheavy.


Since shifting has being verified as approved by me (its that better???? instead of saying flawless) that's under the bridge. Next....I'm just mesmerized by the weight potencial of the combo Cassette/RD/Shifter. One guy most of us know in the forum built the lightest Scott Scale on the planet last year (Mister holms - Gullholm). His combo was:

Acros A-GE complete system with uncut hose (includes shifter): 283g
Cassette XX1 (420% Range) : 263.3g
Total: 546.3g

Mine:
RD Extension link: 12g
Sram Red short cage:141g
TT R2C shifter (without the base): about 25g
Cassette e13 9-46t Race (511.11% Range) : 305.8g
Hose/cable: about 25g? (can someone suggest something here? I don't have records here with me).
Total: 508.8g

Another option: I'm actually reconsidering if I really need a 46t. At 9T-39T (433.33% Range) its alloying me to pretty much do everything. With a 36T chain ring upfront I remember reaching speeds close to 36 miles/hour (58Km/h) and still able to pedal (fast), 39t on the back is alloying me to power thru some really steep climbs. If I decide to stay like that, two options: replace the cassette by a e13 11s 9-39t cassette, but advertised weight is 315g...or... stay on 10sp, but using the current 11sp 9-46T chopping off the 46T with my dremel! Don't know how much the 46T left over ring would weight, would guess around 20g? would bring the cassette weight down to 285.8g.

New total weight would be 488.8g to shift 433.33% Range! :beerchug:

This way I won't need to do more modifications, well, would still need to get the TT R2C and create a custom clamp for it (minimal weight 5g to 10g).

User avatar
andreszucs
in the industry
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 am

by andreszucs

...and btw, chain is close to half life, shifting just fine:
Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

gurk700
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Debate here is how much butt fugly is acceptable for a few grams of savings. Guess I'm not a "true weight weenie"
Not that I ever claimed to be. In any case, good luck!

PS: As the first post doesn't have context, I wasn't clear on the motivation to go this route. I see it now.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Again I said nothing about your drivetrains wearing faster. I have said wear will likely result in iffy shifting sooner. That's the third time I have stated the same thing. I don't mind folk disagreeing with me but missquoting a clearly worded statement, is another thing.

Too heavy well tune it that's what weight denies is about.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post