Fit changes to improve bike handling?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Lewn777
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Discodan wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm
Agree, braking and cornering traction are getting confused here. In terms of pure traction for cornering, having more weight on the front improves both traction and feel.

It’s a lot more obvious on a MTB where you are regularly sliding either end but if you have your weight too far back the front will tend to wash out and is not confidence inspiring.

Likewise on motorbikes, putting more weight over the front helps cornering and really lets you brake deeper and later into corners


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Nonsense. Nobody puts more weight over the front to improve traction, they put their weight over the side of the bike to enhance cornering. Braking and cornering are interwoven becuase you brake up to the apex.

by Weenie


Discodan
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Lewn777 wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm
Agree, braking and cornering traction are getting confused here. In terms of pure traction for cornering, having more weight on the front improves both traction and feel.

It’s a lot more obvious on a MTB where you are regularly sliding either end but if you have your weight too far back the front will tend to wash out and is not confidence inspiring.

Likewise on motorbikes, putting more weight over the front helps cornering and really lets you brake deeper and later into corners


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Nonsense. Nobody puts more weight over the front to improve traction, they put their weight over the side of the bike to enhance cornering. Braking and cornering are interwoven becuase you brake up to the apex.
You absolutely do put your weight further forward when you are mid-corner to improve front-end traction. The opposite also applies; if you have your weight too far back you can feel the front end starting to wash out. It’s a common fix for front end traction problems to change the rider position to put more weight on the front end. And yes I do know what I’m talking about on this one and not just being another keyboard warrior, I have several boxes of trophies in the cupboard from years of racing motorcycles and learning this stuff the hard way


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Lewn777
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

dricked wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:49 am
Weighting the front of a motorcycle doesn’t help with braking or turn in. When you apply the brakes you change the geometry of the bike and also flatten the tire increasing the contact patch. You want to move your body weight back to help keep the bike from lifting the rear tire and it also helps with not overloading the front tire when trail braking.
Nice, someone that knows what they're talking about. :thumbup:

Anyway I'm going to leave the discussion at this point there are too many idiots on this thread claiming that white is actually black or trying to purposefully misunderstand other people whilst offering zero of logical sense themselves.

I just want to leave people with the following thought. Road bike cornering techniques are in the dark ages compared with motos and MTB. Most descents aren't Strava segments and if they are they are immediately flagged for being 'too dangerous'. IMHO road bike riders need to harden up and stop riding desents like pussies and start enjoying them, too much emphasis is on bike tech and cardio fitness/weight. Most of the videos, articles and so on written on the web or in magazines are very basic and barely get past beginner level. If you want to learn about more handling simply read more about it from motos and MTBs, although discount the effects of engines and suspension where relevant obviously.

Paperboy
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:38 pm

by Paperboy

Good to see that there are other [track] motorcycle riders here that know what they're talking about when it comes to traction and cornering :thumbup:

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Lewn777
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Discodan wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:11 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm
Agree, braking and cornering traction are getting confused here. In terms of pure traction for cornering, having more weight on the front improves both traction and feel.

It’s a lot more obvious on a MTB where you are regularly sliding either end but if you have your weight too far back the front will tend to wash out and is not confidence inspiring.

Likewise on motorbikes, putting more weight over the front helps cornering and really lets you brake deeper and later into corners


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Nonsense. Nobody puts more weight over the front to improve traction, they put their weight over the side of the bike to enhance cornering. Braking and cornering are interwoven becuase you brake up to the apex.
You absolutely do put your weight further forward when you are mid-corner to improve front-end traction. The opposite also applies; if you have your weight too far back you can feel the front end starting to wash out. It’s a common fix for front end traction problems to change the rider position to put more weight on the front end. And yes I do know what I’m talking about on this one and not just being another keyboard warrior, I have several boxes of trophies in the cupboard from years of racing motorcycles and learning this stuff the hard way


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Sorry, nobody comes into a corner sitting on the bars expecting universally more grip which is what it sounded like in your first post. Obviously you don't mean that. :thumbup:

Most riders aid front wheel traction with tire pressures and choosing a softer compound. You're clearly taking about dynamically balancing the bike and its suspension by shifting your weight to suit tire grip, everyone does that by postioning themselves on the seat conciously or not. On a moto I just think about 'looking around the barn door' and what my knee is doing on the tarmac.

The thread is about someone changing the set-up of the bike to put the rider position further forward, but there's no reason to do that on a road bicycle because the geometry is balanced pretty well from the shop floor. This is about people on marginally too large frames running heavily far forward saddles and weirdly long stems and wondering why their bike handles like a pig. :roll:

And yes, I have 25 years motorcycling and 15 years MTB including racing. Although a riding CV isn't really relevant.

dricked
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:57 pm

by dricked

Discodan wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:11 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm
Agree, braking and cornering traction are getting confused here. In terms of pure traction for cornering, having more weight on the front improves both traction and feel.

It’s a lot more obvious on a MTB where you are regularly sliding either end but if you have your weight too far back the front will tend to wash out and is not confidence inspiring.

Likewise on motorbikes, putting more weight over the front helps cornering and really lets you brake deeper and later into corners


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nonsense. Nobody puts more weight over the front to improve traction, they put their weight over the side of the bike to enhance cornering. Braking and cornering are interwoven becuase you brake up to the apex.
You absolutely do put your weight further forward when you are mid-corner to improve front-end traction. The opposite also applies; if you have your weight too far back you can feel the front end starting to wash out. It’s a common fix for front end traction problems to change the rider position to put more weight on the front end. And yes I do know what I’m talking about on this one and not just being another keyboard warrior, I have several boxes of trophies in the cupboard from years of racing motorcycles and learning this stuff the hard way


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If you need to shift your weight forward mid corner to improve grip or help the bike finish the corner you’ve got some suspension and geometry issues. Only time you should have to weight the front end is to keep it on the ground on corner exit but you could also drag the rear brake.

I’ve got a couple trophies myself.

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