Page 1 of 1

Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm
by matty
Bought my dad a C3 for his 70th birthday and due to swapping out some of the components I am unsure what needs doing with the steerer insert.

Does this have to be used and bonded in or is this dependent on what else you are using?

Was going to fit jrc expander and absolute black top cap. I guess these go into the sleeve insert rather than the carbon steerer? And if so I guess can use same loctite as using on the ceramicspeed bb.

To lighten the bike I have DT Swiss 240 laced to Yishun asymmetrical rims saving loads over the stock aksium wheels. Superlogic post and bars with c260 stem and wcs stream saddle.

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:12 pm
by uraqt
I called support about my R5 fork and they said that a expander was ok too!

C

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:12 pm
by Weenie

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:37 am
by wheelbuilder
uraqt wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:12 pm
I called support about my R5 fork and they said that a expander was ok too!

C
Interesting, as I called them a couple of years ago when I was building a customers bike and they stated that if their insert, and their provided epoxy was not used in the steer tube, the frame/fork warranty would be void.

Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:58 am
by Calnago
I’d go with what Wheelbuilder’s advisor said. With a lot of these customer “support” agents, you have to wonder sometimes if they even know what you’re talking about, let alone if they know what they’re talking about. Cervelo provides that insert for a reason, to support the steertube. It is not a substitute for an expander plug. Sounds like one agent was confused perhaps. You can certainly use an expander within the bonded in insert, but typically with the insert being alloy you just use a starnut. It would also depend on the type of “expander” being discussed I suppose. Good judgement should win out here, with knowledge of what the intent of the bonded insert’s purpose is. Does the “expander” being discussed fulfill that purpose as well as the bonded in insert? If it doesn’t, then maybe it’s not the greatest idea.

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:02 pm
by Karvalo
Calnago wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:58 am
I’d go with what Wheelbuilder’s advisor said. With a lot of these customer “support” agents, you have to wonder sometimes if they even know what you’re talking about, let alone if they know what they’re talking about. Cervelo provides that insert for a reason, to support the steertube. It is not a substitute for an expander plug. Sounds like one agent was confused perhaps. You can certainly use an expander within the bonded in insert, but typically with the insert being alloy you just use a starnut. It would also depend on the type of “expander” being discussed I suppose. Good judgement should win out here, with knowledge of what the intent of the bonded insert’s purpose is. Does the “expander” being discussed fulfill that purpose as well as the bonded in insert? If it doesn’t, then maybe it’s not the greatest idea.
Hey Cal, in this case you should RTM. The Cervelo customer support agent does know what he's talking about. Excerpt from the official Cervelo Fork Owners Manual;

"Cervélo recommends the use of the supplied alloy insert sleeve and pre-installed star nut to preload the headset. The use of a compression plug (not provided) in place of the insert sleeve is permitted, but this substitution will not provide the same resistance to clamping damage due to over-tightening of the stem."

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 pm
by Calnago
Seems like there were two very different answers from two different support people. I would consider simply telling a customer “sure, you can use an expander instead” as a bit irresponsible as some expanders provide a great deal of internal support while others provide virtually none. I think my response is pretty consistent with what’s in the manual... use judgement knowing that some expanders may not provide the support that the internally bonded sleeve would.

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:14 pm
by Karvalo
Calnago wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 pm
I think my response is pretty consistent with what’s in the manual...
Well, no - because you said you'd go with what Wheelbuilder's advisor said, and Wheelbuilder's advisor said the warranty would be void. The manual says that's not the case.

By the way, since pretty much every other frame company says you can use expanders without specifiying what are good or bad expanders, is the entire industry also irresponsible?

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:23 pm
by Calnago
You’re being pedantic. I think the advice that was given to Wheelbuilder was much more reasonable and I’d use the bonded in insert. It’s easy to do and provides peace of mind. I generally like to go with the manufacturers’ recommendations on these things. And I’m not making any blanket statements about other manufacturers based on another’s recommendations. Perhaps the OP should make a phone call to Cervelo himself.

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:21 pm
by stevod
I'd go with this post / author:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92744#p797291

It's from 2011 although I don't think the insert has changed.

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:21 pm
by Weenie

Re: Cervelo C3 Fork Steerer Insert Question

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:33 pm
by Karvalo
Calnago wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:23 pm
You’re being pedantic. I think the advice that was given to Wheelbuilder was much more reasonable
Sorry, literally the only thing that Wheelbuilder said he was told was that the warranty would be void if the insert wasn't used, and that's not true. How exactly do you figure that's pedantic?
I generally like to go with the manufacturers’ recommendations on these things.
And in this case the manufacturer says it's ok to use expanders as long as you don't overtorque the stem - I'm retty sure you weren't planning on doing that anyway, right? Revisiting your earlier logic, if they say it's ok, they must have a good reason.