Clicking C64?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wilwil
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

My C64 clicks every revolution of the cranks. It’s Campag Sr chainset with Campag BB cups. The cups were installed with Park anti seize. I’ve checked the torque on the Colnago inserts. Will I have to use Loctite on the BB cups? If so which number Loctite? A friend with the same problem but with Dura Ace ended up buying the Ceramic Speed BB. I don’t really want to do that. I thought these frames didn’t suffer with BB noise?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hmm, I doubt it’s a frame issue. And assuming everything was new when you installed it, it’s unlikely a wear issue, but possible I suppose.
Here’s a couple things I’d check first:
1) make sure your drive side crank arm isn’t ticking on the front derailleur. I’m assuming however, that it’s ticking on every revolution regardless of whether it’s on the big ring or small, in which case this wouldn’t be happening on the small ring unless things were WAY out of adjustment somewhere.
2) From the non drive side, and with the bike sturdily supported, can you quickly push the non drive crank at the BB laterally as if you were trying to push it out the drive side? Listen for the “click” when you do this. Is that the “click” you’re hearing? That’s the drive side bearing hitting up against the c-clip. Normally, this won’t happen as the wavy washer will keep things where they should be. However, if the cups, or bearings, get worn enough that lateral movement will become too easy and you’ll hear that click. Replace bearings and/or cups in that case.
3) If you remove the crank, can you see wear on the cups in the form of worn through anodization. If so, replace them but be sure to use a good press, as this could just as easily be an indication that they weren’t installed perfectly Square and aligned in the first place.
4) check everything else it could be... pedals tight? Chainring bolts? Etc. etc. The list goes on. Skewers, etc.

Even if there was some play in your BB cups (between the Campy cups and the Colnago Threadfit cups) a “click” is not what I would expect to hear... creaking or a metal on metal “rub” (which I guess is creaking) would be more what I’d expect. A “click” to me suggests something is actually sharply hitting something, however small. Hard to say exactly what that is over the Internet.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


wilwil
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Thanks. Everything is new. The first cups I installed had been used before so I changed them for new ones but no difference.

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corky
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Location: The Surrey Hills

by corky

Does it click when out of the saddle? Qr done up. Cleats?, ....so many possibilities ....

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

One more thing which I thought of while out for a ride today. I was experiencing an ever so faint click myself. It was consistent, and sounded like it was timed with the revolution of my cranks. But then I figured, when putting in a very high gear that it was more timed with the revolution of the wheels versus the crank, but when freewheeling the pawls in the cassette drowned it out so I thought it was when pedaling.
Bugging me so much I stopped and turned the bike upside down to figure it out. Then I remembered that this morning I had removed the little Campy valve nuts that I had put on some time ago for who knows what experiment. All I could think of was that I put them on to keep the valve from getting depressed when pumping up the tire after a flat. But guess what... the clicking was coming from the valve hitting the rim with each wheel revolution. A pretty common thing, and then it occurred to me that was the reason I put them on in the first place, versus just using some tape or something. Should have known... since nothing I do to the bike is without reason. Anyway, I immediately thought of you with your mysterious click so throwing it out there as one more simple thing to check.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Valy
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 11:16 pm

by Valy

Calnago wrote:One more thing which I thought of while out for a ride today. I was experiencing an ever so faint click myself. It was consistent, and sounded like it was timed with the revolution of my cranks. But then I figured, when putting in a very high gear that it was more timed with the revolution of the wheels versus the crank, but when freewheeling the pawls in the cassette drowned it out so I thought it was when pedaling.
Bugging me so much I stopped and turned the bike upside down to figure it out. Then I remembered that this morning I had removed the little Campy valve nuts that I had put on some time ago for who knows what experiment. All I could think of was that I put them on to keep the valve from getting depressed when pumping up the tire after a flat. But guess what... the clicking was coming from the valve hitting the rim with each wheel revolution. A pretty common thing, and then it occurred to me that was the reason I put them on in the first place, versus just using some tape or something. Should have known... since nothing I do to the bike is without reason. Anyway, I immediately thought of you with your mysterious click so throwing it out there as one more simple thing to check.
That's a good one. I've been trying to troubleshoot a click on my bike too, never though about that!

wilwil
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Thanks. My Boras have plastic inserts that stop the valves from rattling. It’s very easy to lose these if you repair a puncture at the road side. Anyway I checked to see if the BB cups were tightly pressed in and found I could tighten the press an eighth turn and this has cured it. The thing is I’m not sure if the cups are working loose or I didn’t put them in tight enough. I’m using a Wheels Manufacturing Press which doesn’t have the longest handles but is anice tool all the same.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Well, there ya go. If it works loose again, then just immediately pull them and use some retaining compound plus primer. Curious, did you install them dry, or use some grease or antiseize? Oh, and one more thing... the Campy 86.5x41 cups that are used in the C60 and many other frames were revised in 2015. But there still seem to be some older cups floating around retail that you might end up with if you’re not careful. If you’ve got a set of these older ones, I’d replace them as there were some issues with those. How can you tell you ask? Well, the easiest way is by the part number on the box which will have a IC-14, instead of an IC-15 in the designation. I’ll see if I can’t dig up some pics of the differences as well.
And about the valve click... mine was on Boras too... some valve extenders aren’t as tight fitting as others. And if the little plastic clip comes out easily on your wheels, then either the little tabs that expand to “clip” in securely on the inside rim edge are broken off or they are not inserted all the way and the little tabs are not “clipping” on anything, but if it’s the latter it’s usually really hard to even get the valve stem through without pushing the clip out along with it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 364
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Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

My newer Boras (about 11months old) came with revised grommets which don't have those lips, its just a cylinder with a shoulder. Probably too many people couldn't insert the old style properly or smth. Problem with the new is they tend to travel south. Almost after every ride I find them 5mm out. As for clicking, with my first Boras I misplaced one of the grommets during the tire gluing chaos and went out without. It was really maddening.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, I dug up what I was referring to with the “old” cups. I’m not sure if the 86.5x41 cups had the same earlier issue (the ones I was referring to were for the 386BB (86.5x46)).
Anyway, here’s what to look for...
Image
Note the cup on the left has this rubber O-ring... it is the old version and the contact portion is not nearly as large as the cup on the right. Both have a kind of “leading edge” to make the press easier to start and that edge is ever so slightly smaller than the nominal shell width but the cup on the right’s leading edge only extends about 1mm with no o-ring versus the one on the left (with the o-ring), which is about 2.5mm). So while the cup on the left really only provides ~7mm of good pressfit contact, the one on the right provides over 9mm of solid pressfit contact, much better.
And the Campy cups themselves are always machined (in my experience) to very precise tolerances. This particular cup ranges from an outside diameter of 41.00mm-41.01mm. And pressed into Colnagos equally well machined alloy Threadfit cups, that makes for a very good fit... best in the business in light of how hard it is to get perfectly concentric carbon shells to those kinds of tolerances.
Image
Cheers!
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Alexandrumarian wrote:My newer Boras (about 11months old) came with revised grommets which don't have those lips, its just a cylinder with a shoulder. Probably too many people couldn't insert the old style properly or smth. Problem with the new is they tend to travel south. Almost after every ride I find them 5mm out. As for clicking, with my first Boras I misplaced one of the grommets during the tire gluing chaos and went out without. It was really maddening.
Hmmm. I can think of three different grommet styles being used on Boras since I’ve been running them starting in 2010...
First... never came out... very nice fit, maybe too “nice” as some valve extenders were actually too big a diameter to even fit through... but ne’r a rattle was heard...
Image


Second... easy to break tabs off and sometimes hard to “seat” initially...
Image


And third (current as far as I know)... a little larger than the second, but I’ve never had any issues with them “moving south” during a ride...
Image

Ok, that’s it from the CalZone this morning.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Maybe the valve thread (what tub is that?) keeps it in place? Mine slip out with little effort from both Vittoria valves or Continental extenders. A coat of shellac or CA on the inside should make them perfect but I guess I'll get over the lazines to fix them only after I lose one on the road.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

That particular wheel has an S-Works Turbo (26mm) mounted but the threaded valve extender is what Campy supplies with the wheels currently. I should add that the same valve extender in the second gen grommet that I pictured above is a looser fit than the grommets in the newest wheels and it was the second gen (with the black threaded Campy extender) that was slightly “clicking” on me yesterday. Also comes with this neat little knurled valve stem nut (with an o-ring), which is kind of nice. Was wondering if that might be more useful for a tubeless application?
Image
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

What do people do on rims/valve stems that don't come with any kind of spacer solution? I have some Farsports that have been great but the valves jingle around a tiny bit. Teflon tape?

I've had quick releases clicking when standing that sounded like it was crank related. A little cleaning and a drop of oil cleared things up.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Just a piece of tape is probably the most common. Just cut a piece and poke it right over the valve, letting the valve tear the hole then tape it to the rim. Easy peasy.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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