bremerradkurier wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:46 pmTrek is garbage at any level. Who cares?wheelsONfire wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:01 pmTrek's higher end carbon frames are still US made.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/stor ... bon_story/
Carbon HighEnd Frameset Quality this days...
Moderator: robbosmans
I doubt Trek manufactures anything in the US nowadays.
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Warranty periods on frames are very telling...the fact that most major brands offer 3-5 years only says a lot about how confident they are in their product. I'm not interested in any of the current Trek bikes, but I do admire how they handle warranties (Bontrager included).
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velov wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 10:46 amWarranty periods on frames are very telling...the fact that most major brands offer 3-5 years only says a lot about how confident they are in their product. I'm not interested in any of the current Trek bikes, but I do admire how they handle warranties (Bontrager included).
Good point, does anyone know why many of the Italian brands are only 2-3 year warranty? Pinarello is 2 but if you register right away it's 3.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
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Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
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Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523
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Trek are not made anymore in USA even highest end ones
Paint yes for some, frame no
Maybe some for pros with specific layout etc are but I got no information about that
Paint yes for some, frame no
Maybe some for pros with specific layout etc are but I got no information about that
That 2/3 years warranty scheme is pretty common for Italian brands (Basso, Colnago for example ), though some don't even offer that 1 year extension (Cinelli, De Rosa). Some use 2/5 scheme (Sarto, Wilier). Bianchi has 5 years. They usually don't even have any crash replacement program. Not sure if there's any (bigger) Italian brand which offers a lifetime warranty.
Here Look, Time, Orbea, Giant, Specialized, Trek and others win.
Here Look, Time, Orbea, Giant, Specialized, Trek and others win.
And Cipollini offers 7 years but IMHO those longer or shorter warranty periods are just a marketing tool not related to actual quality. Colnago offers 2 years but certainly a lugged Colnago will last at least ten times this.
Of course I am happy that my Time has a lifetime warranty.
Of course I am happy that my Time has a lifetime warranty.
Hasn't Time now off-shored a lot as well, since it was bought by Rossignol?MyM3Coupe wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 4:47 pmIMO Time makes one of the best products in the business. They machined the BB30 insert perfectly on my NXS as evidenced by 4 years of "creak free" riding.
I'm baffled by people paying $5K USD for say a Pinarello, that's just a cheaply made Taiwanese mold frame with a short warranty.
For many, many years Time has made its frames and maybe other stuff in one of those north Africa countries that borders the Mediterranean and was once ruled, colonized by France. Does that count as "off-shore"?robertbb wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 10:44 pmHasn't Time now off-shored a lot as well, since it was bought by Rossignol?MyM3Coupe wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 4:47 pmIMO Time makes one of the best products in the business. They machined the BB30 insert perfectly on my NXS as evidenced by 4 years of "creak free" riding.
I'm baffled by people paying $5K USD for say a Pinarello, that's just a cheaply made Taiwanese mold frame with a short warranty.
Beware of lifetime warranties. The lifetime is that of the bike, not that of the rider. For example with an alloy mountain bike the 'lifetime' is usually considered 7 years - the lifetime of a heavily used alloy frame. So if you went to Time with an issue after 7 years I doubt they'd honor any warranty.kgt wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 6:00 pmAnd Cipollini offers 7 years but IMHO those longer or shorter warranty periods are just a marketing tool not related to actual quality. Colnago offers 2 years but certainly a lugged Colnago will last at least ten times this.
Of course I am happy that my Time has a lifetime warranty.
What I find important in a warranty is:
-How easily contactable the company are directly or though a dealer.
-How likely the company are to deny any warranty and claim user error.
-How foggy their user instructions are. For example it's all very well to say 'you were using a seatpost that was too short that's why you broke your seat-stay seat-tube junction'. But if you were never told that before in any kind of company literature that's ridiculous.
-How long their turnaround times are. Some companies know some users ride a heck of a lot and ride hard. Those guys put their equipment under pressure and claim a lot. So cleverly what they'll do is take 3-6 months to do a warranty claim to try to sit out a warranty to eat up the warranty. When you're going to be missing your frame six months, you'll probably end up buying a new frame so you won't gain much from a warranty.
-How likely the company are to just give you a new frame that's inferior to you old frame or different color or different braking system.
Personally I'd rather have a reliable and robust no blame warranty that was shorter than a long warranty from a company that doesn't want to honor it.
TIME has had frames produced in some Eastern European countries as well. I have a TIME frame in my garage at the moment waiting for some love with a “Not Made In France” logo...
Also, since the takeover by Rossignol, they’ve either laid off or reassigned over half of the staff at Time’s former headquarters. TIME has not been performing financially as Rossignol had hoped so changes are indeed happening. Rossignol also took over Felt Bicycles. We’ll see which brand continues or how they meld the two. Originally wanting to diversify their winter business (skis, etc) into summer sports (bikes) as well, I don’t think it’s quite panning out the way they had hoped.
Also, since the takeover by Rossignol, they’ve either laid off or reassigned over half of the staff at Time’s former headquarters. TIME has not been performing financially as Rossignol had hoped so changes are indeed happening. Rossignol also took over Felt Bicycles. We’ll see which brand continues or how they meld the two. Originally wanting to diversify their winter business (skis, etc) into summer sports (bikes) as well, I don’t think it’s quite panning out the way they had hoped.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
I don’t know how easy Colnago would be to deal with on a warranty issue, but they’re an Italian company and I suspect it would take a long time, at least if ordering a new frame from scratch is any indication. Luckily I’ve never had to deal with a warranty issue from them.
On the other hand, I’ve heard of guys with many many years old Treks that were warrantied instantly with new current frames. And then there’s Cervelo, and this may not be the case anymore, but I certainly remember a time where their warranties were being used, a lot. A guy I knew went through 2 replacement frames from cracked BB’s and sold the 3rd one as soon as it arrived before it had a chance to break again. But I think in the case of Trek (ha, I just said “I think” which of course means “I’m not sure”), that lifetime means as long as you’re the original purchaser, they will warranty the bike for as long as you own it. No “7 year time limit” or anything. My own personal experience with a DuoTrap speed sensor which somehow broke was that I took it in to a Trek Store fully expecting to just buy a new one. I didn’t even ask if it was under warranty and when I brought out my wallet to pay the guy just gave me a brand new one (about $60 retail). It was well over a year old, but he looked at it and just said... lifetime warranty and gave me a new one. Could have been maybe nothing more than a gesture of good will since he knows I work on other peoples bikes etc., but still, not expected but much appreciated. All depends I guess, on a lot things.
On the other hand, I’ve heard of guys with many many years old Treks that were warrantied instantly with new current frames. And then there’s Cervelo, and this may not be the case anymore, but I certainly remember a time where their warranties were being used, a lot. A guy I knew went through 2 replacement frames from cracked BB’s and sold the 3rd one as soon as it arrived before it had a chance to break again. But I think in the case of Trek (ha, I just said “I think” which of course means “I’m not sure”), that lifetime means as long as you’re the original purchaser, they will warranty the bike for as long as you own it. No “7 year time limit” or anything. My own personal experience with a DuoTrap speed sensor which somehow broke was that I took it in to a Trek Store fully expecting to just buy a new one. I didn’t even ask if it was under warranty and when I brought out my wallet to pay the guy just gave me a brand new one (about $60 retail). It was well over a year old, but he looked at it and just said... lifetime warranty and gave me a new one. Could have been maybe nothing more than a gesture of good will since he knows I work on other peoples bikes etc., but still, not expected but much appreciated. All depends I guess, on a lot things.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
My experience exactlyCalnago wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:35 amAnd then there’s Cervelo, and this may not be the case anymore, but I certainly remember a time where their warranties were being used, a lot. A guy I knew went through 2 replacement frames from cracked BB’s and sold the 3rd one as soon as it arrived before it had a chance to break again.
I went from Look 381i
to Cervelo
I went thru 2 R2.5's
then went to back Look (585)
These days I'm pretty much over carbon & will stick to Alloy & Steel
Being a retired building contractor I always joke that carbon (IMHO) is the drywall material of the cycling world
Having previously lived in South East Asia for 5 years I would say your hunch is correctwheelsONfire wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:01 pm
What annoys me to a degree is that almost all framesets are built in Asia and the mark up is probably horrendous.
I'd feel a bit better knowing that it's built somewhere costs on labour etc is more on par with what i pay for the frameset.
Let's think about it, what if Specialized, Trek, Pinarello, Bianchi etc were built in house with full controll of QC from get go to the boxing.
What do you expect those framesets had cost?
I ended up getting a Giant TCR my friend had one for 8 years and developed a hair line crack on the seat post giant replaced it 4 him no questions asked. All he had to do was take it to a giant dealer and he had a new frame within 5 days. The shop swapped all the parts over for free aswel as that's within giants scheme with authorised dealers.
After seeing how well he was treated I bit the bullet and got myself a 2019 advanced pro and I must say it's a fantastic bike with the warrenty to back it up lifetime on the frame (which means lifetime) and 10 years on the fork. Only thing that comes to mind if u buy just a frameset you must have a giant approved dealer build it for you to obtain the warrenty which I guess in the grand scheme of things is fair enough
After seeing how well he was treated I bit the bullet and got myself a 2019 advanced pro and I must say it's a fantastic bike with the warrenty to back it up lifetime on the frame (which means lifetime) and 10 years on the fork. Only thing that comes to mind if u buy just a frameset you must have a giant approved dealer build it for you to obtain the warrenty which I guess in the grand scheme of things is fair enough
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