Page 1 of 4

Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:23 am
by aeroisnteverything
With all of the new tyre releases this season, I thought it might be time to poll views. To date, I think we've yet to see a "perfect" tubeless option. Everything offers a bit of a compromise. To wit:
- Conti 5000TL: lowest rolling resistance (excluding corsa speed); but heaviest, hard to mount, and a few questions on sealant retention, susceptibility to pinch flats, as well as grip.
- Hutchison Fusion 5 Galactics: second best in RR and light; but lower puncture protection, and the thread does cut pretty easily; a bit questionable durability.
- Mavic Yksion Pro UST: same as Hutchison, but a bit thicker thread and a correspondinly higher weight and RR.
- Schwalbe Pro One: not really all that spectacular in performance any longer; cut easily.
- Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0: disappointing RR numbers but excellent grip and feel; a bit heavy.

If you've tried all or at least some of these, what would you choose? If you've only tried one and are so stoked and happy with the choise that you aren't going to switch, why? Or, as a final option are you just fed up with the tubeless noise and are sticking to regular clinchers?

Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:23 am
by Weenie

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 am
by Lewn777
I've only tried the Pro One(from your list), but that for me was far too fragile. Also Panaracer Race A Evo3, Schwalbe G One fast and about 10 MTB tubless tires.
I would like to try the 5000 with Orange sealant or a tougher variant of the Hutchinson.
Also don't forget some of the Japanese options, the Panaracer Race A Evo3 tubeless is pretty tough yet quite fast, and also IRC Roadlite is very good, but some have reported sidewall issues with IRC. Also the IRC Formula Pro options seem pretty good.

Tubeless are a good option, but............
-It can expensive game if you do a lot of mileage. The tires can be pricy, as can the sealant.
-If you monitor your regular tube clinchers and regularly get punctures before they get to 3000kms then I'd say it might be worth giving tubeless a try.
-Don't bother with tubless on under used bikes. Sometimes if a tubless tire is allowed to go flat the sealant dries out and you can struggle to ever reinflate them.
-You might need a compressor, shot pump or new tire levers, but you probably won't.
-If you can bulk buy orange sealant, get good tape, tire worms and have lots of reasonably priced tubless tire options worth a try. In some countries tubeless isn't popular and importing all/some of the tubeless stuff makes it too much hassle.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:21 pm
by zefs
I've tried most of those and would recommend the fastest and lighter tires for race days or group rides (if 2 wheelsets are available), then the all round options for training rides since they seem to offer more mileage for the price.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:34 pm
by Rudi
I got the Schwalbe Pro one a few months back as a bit of a stop gap. I wanted to wait for the Vittoria's to be released in TLR versions. That said, I'm now really liking them and am considering not bothering with the Vittoria's. Partially due to the 2.0 testing badly on BRR review (vs. expectaions). If/when they review the TLR version I might reconsider.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:00 pm
by kevinw
I've spent a year and a half with the mavics and 2 months with the gp5000s on different bikes.

The gp5000 feel better but were not an easy install on my WTOs. No punctures that i've noticed yet - disconcerting strand of rubber peeled off next to the bead - hope they aren't unravelling :shock: They dont seem to hold pressure over time ass well as the mavics but this could be because I put in far less sealant as was lead to believe they didnt need it to stay inflated.

The mavics just pop on and off my kyruim elites no problem at all - easiest tyre install I've ever done with any tyre technology. They cut up really easily though - must have had close to 50 punctures but credit to the sealant - it usually does its job (not this morning though).

For a controlled experiement I'd have to see what the GP5000s were like on my elite wheels I suppose but they definately seem more robust.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:41 pm
by robeambro
Well, you ask what would we choose, but you didn't specify for what.. Allround training and racing?
I think the GP5000 sealant retention issues may be due to so many factors (sealant used, environmental temperature, etc) that it might be early to worry about those.

I've also read great things on the Pirelli Cinturato when it comes to puncture protection - they are slow though.

If it were me, unless every watt counts, I wouldn't really consider a tyre that cuts too easily, you end up defeating the purpose of going tubeless if every ride sees you potentially being stranded on the side of the road.

I'd go for GP5000 or Corsa's if you don't mind risking a puncture that can't be sealed, but if protection is paramount I'd go for the Pirelli.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm
by robeambro
kevinw wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:00 pm
I've spent a year and a half with the mavics and 2 months with the gp5000s on different bikes.

The gp5000 feel better but were not an easy install on my WTOs. No punctures that i've noticed yet - disconcerting strand of rubber peeled off next to the bead - hope they aren't unravelling :shock: They dont seem to hold pressure over time ass well as the mavics but this could be because I put in far less sealant as was lead to believe they didnt need it to stay inflated.

The mavics just pop on and off my kyruim elites no problem at all - easiest tyre install I've ever done with any tyre technology. They cut up really easily though - must have had close to 50 punctures but credit to the sealant - it usually does its job (not this morning though).

For a controlled experiement I'd have to see what the GP5000s were like on my elite wheels I suppose but they definately seem more robust.
50 punctures? Now, what do you ride in, some post-apocalyptic warfare zone? :shock:

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:07 pm
by WinterRider
Reading the Continental 5000 TL hard to mount... for who? Get a tire lever/jack (Kool Stop Tire Jack)... makes the job doable w the most stubborn tubeless choices.

Pro Ones same.. the jack makes it's selection an option for all. Ones do wear a mite faster... as noted the 'fast day' tires.

I run wire bead Cont Ultra ll's tubeless.. wear is superior to anything sold tubeless. Coated insides for better seal.. 25's roll so close to Pro One's on roll out tests.

Have 32 wire bead ll's also... trail rider. See the 32 5000TL weighs 380 grs.. got actual data today stating the foldable 32 ll goes 378... my wire version at ~415.. which I roll at 48 psi front 60 rear. Yet... how much different than the 5000 can the new Ultra ll 32 foldable be... I mean.. same WEIGHT... :smartass:

Plot gets.. thicker. Did trial 28 Ultra's FOLDABLE --->tubeless. Mounted on same flavor Kinlin 200's as Pro One's... my tape interference fit a mite too small thre.. they ran fine... right there on roll out w P Ones and Ultra 25's.. and my notes.. mental one.. not clear on how I interior coated the 28's. Suffice to say I used that set elsewhere.. needed for a bike flip. Yet no burp'n even lacking the ideal kind of fit I run tubeless... tight.

Be interestastin.... if someone access Ultra ll foldable 32's and 5000 TL's... to compare how bead is made...

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 pm
by Dan Gerous
Yeah the Mavics always get covered with cuts, the non tubeless Mavics did too. In my case, the cuts never ended up puncturing, you sometimes see the casing but I never saw any sealant leak through and when I used tubed ones, they never failed from these cuts even though I saw on many occasions some odd long cuts that go from almost one bead to the other, always perfectly square, as if a 'seam' failed and stretched more than cuts created by something sharp on the road... Very weird, but I've done many rides even on those big cuts without any failures.

But I know some people who didn't have such luck with the cuts on Mavic UST, cuts deep and long enough that sealant wouldn't help. It's too bad because the UST ride pretty well, low rolling resistance, light, super easy to install. No idea if Hutchinson's own tires suffer from all those cuts, I don't know anybody that rides (or shops that sell) Hutchinsons around here.

Out of your choices, I'd try GP5000. But personally I went back to tubes, I rarely flat and, for me, tubed quality tires at their optimal feeling pressure roll faster than tubeless tires at their optimal feeling pressure, easier to install, less maintenance, no mess.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:29 pm
by zefs
The Mavic Yksion tires are made by Hutchinson, and getting cuts (but no punctures) was also my experience. I did try Hutchinson Performance which I rate higher as it went through the winter with no cuts after 2200km.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:06 pm
by dim
There's also IRC Formula Pro RBCC tubeless road tyres which are pretty decent with amazing grip .... I however prefer the Conti GP5000TL for the roads that I ride on

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 8:38 am
by kevinw
robeambro wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm
50 punctures? Now, what do you ride in, some post-apocalyptic warfare zone? :shock:
Worse... Cheshire. It's when they re-surface the roads with stone chippings

To be honest I'm also counting when previous nicks re-open. So every time i hear the "hiss...hiss...hiss...hupp" and get sprayed with sealant.

Tyres get replaced not due to lack of tread but when they just have too many sealant repairs on them - just fitted my fifth mavic ust tyre last night. Think i'll make to move to gp5000 on my mavic wheels when the price comes down a little.

I do really like the mavic "system" approach though and I really do rate the performance of the mavic ust tyres.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 9:29 am
by aeroisnteverything
kevinw wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:38 am


Worse... Cheshire. It's when they re-surface the roads with stone chippings

To be honest I'm also counting when previous nicks re-open. So every time i hear the "hiss...hiss...hiss...hupp" and get sprayed with sealant.

Tyres get replaced not due to lack of tread but when they just have too many sealant repairs on them - just fitted my fifth mavic ust tyre last night. Think i'll make to move to gp5000 on my mavic wheels when the price comes down a little.

I do really like the mavic "system" approach though and I really do rate the performance of the mavic ust tyres.
Sounds familiar. The case to me was when they "fixed" my favourite stretch of road in north London that was smooth, empty of cars, and just the right length for some TT practice. I am almost 100% sure it was actually a case of local corruption, because earlier in the spring they repaved a section of that same road with perfectly smooth tarmac, and then 2 months later dumped stone chips all over the whole 4km stretch of it. Ugh!

The cuts is what made me move away from Mavics. I got cuts on the rear - riding the same road repair "situation" as you are" - quite regularly, and overnight some of them would "bleed" sealant. So far, Vittoria Corsas do not have the same issue - not even close. Will try Contis when the Corsas wear out and am dreading having to mount them.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:49 pm
by MikeD
I would not recommend Compass or Panaracer tires for tubeless. My tires bleed sealant through the casing, the beads have stretched, and a bubble has formed in the tread. Their max pressure is also low (60 psi). They should be great with tubes though.

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 pm
by robeambro
kevinw wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:38 am
robeambro wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm
50 punctures? Now, what do you ride in, some post-apocalyptic warfare zone? :shock:
Worse... Cheshire. It's when they re-surface the roads with stone chippings

To be honest I'm also counting when previous nicks re-open. So every time i hear the "hiss...hiss...hiss...hupp" and get sprayed with sealant.

Tyres get replaced not due to lack of tread but when they just have too many sealant repairs on them - just fitted my fifth mavic ust tyre last night. Think i'll make to move to gp5000 on my mavic wheels when the price comes down a little.

I do really like the mavic "system" approach though and I really do rate the performance of the mavic ust tyres.
Jeez.. How'd you manage before tubeless? Clinchers must have been a nightmare..

Re: Tubeless tyre choice

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 pm
by Weenie