Are tubeless tires more comfortable than cotton clinchers + latex tubes?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

zefs wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:09 am

Also tire casing would play a role, Hutchinson for example are flexible (you can stretch them by hand) compared to the Corsa's and GP5K and from my experience this has a difference in ride quality as well.

One thing to note is the GP5K casing, while not amazingly flexible, does stretch considerably and permanently. For all the trouble I had mounting them on a set of wheels, they were extremely easy to remove later... The keyword should be casing/sidewall stiffness.

I really wish Jarno would test the "TLR" tires in the Hutchinson Fusion 5 family. I'm curious to see how the Galactik TLR 11Storm stacks up against the TL non-11Storm he originally tested. We know it has better wear/endurance and we know the TLR measures about 70 grams lighter.

That said, the fastest tubeless tires do have the thinnest casings outside of a couple anomalies.

Corsa Speed 1.0 = 0.85mm
Grand Prix 5000 TL = 0.95mm
Fusion 5 Galactik TL = 1.05mm
Pro One = 0.90mm
Yksion Pro UST = 1.10mm

Another tubeless tire with a very thin casing Zipp Tangente Speed RT. BRR needs to test that too!

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4619
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

JoO wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:31 am

I don’t understand your remark. Do you believe a latex inner does add significant rr and that this was offset by the need to add a lot a sealant in the tubeless setup?

I'm just saying it's not surprising that 60g of liquid latex adds about the same internal friction losses as a latex tube that weighs roughly the same. The amount doesn't matter...it's still the fastest tire tested by multiple sources.

thelorax121
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:00 pm

by thelorax121

JoO wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:24 am

According to Tom Anhalt the rr difference between a tubless tires with and without a latex inner tube is almost inmeasurable.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Another great link/point. Thanks!

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DOUG
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:46 am
zefs wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:09 am

Also tire casing would play a role, Hutchinson for example are flexible (you can stretch them by hand) compared to the Corsa's and GP5K and from my experience this has a difference in ride quality as well.

One thing to note is the GP5K casing, while not amazingly flexible, does stretch considerably and permanently. For all the trouble I had mounting them on a set of wheels, they were extremely easy to remove later... The keyword should be casing/sidewall stiffness.

I really wish Jarno would test the "TLR" tires in the Hutchinson Fusion 5 family. I'm curious to see how the Galactik TLR 11Storm stacks up against the TL non-11Storm he originally tested. We know it has better wear/endurance and we know the TLR measures about 70 grams lighter.

That said, the fastest tubeless tires do have the thinnest casings outside of a couple anomalies.

Corsa Speed 1.0 = 0.85mm
Grand Prix 5000 TL = 0.95mm
Fusion 5 Galactik TL = 1.05mm
Pro One = 0.90mm
Yksion Pro UST = 1.10mm

Another tubeless tire with a very thin casing Zipp Tangente Speed RT. BRR needs to test that too!
The TLR 11 Storm is the best ive tried so far, I strongly suspect that would be right up there with the Pro Ones. Easily better for grip levels and durability (so far) than the Pro Ones and I find them better at absorbing road buzz. Once I wear these out I might give the Yksion Pro UST or the GP5000 TL a go. You've ridden both Im pretty sure, any reason why you would choose one over the other?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

DOUG wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:25 am

The TLR 11 Storm is the best ive tried so far, I strongly suspect that would be right up there with the Pro Ones. Easily better for grip levels and durability (so far) than the Pro Ones and I find them better at absorbing road buzz. Once I wear these out I might give the Yksion Pro UST or the GP5000 TL a go. You've ridden both Im pretty sure, any reason why you would choose one over the other?

I think the 11Storm based tires (including the Yksion Pro UST) are the best all-rounders. The GP5K TL is definitely faster and also has decent wear life, but I find they have borderline cornering grip and wet grip.

There's also a list of minor issues that will keep me from using GP5Ks in the future:
1) They are hard to mount on some rims.
2) It seems like they soak up sealant.
3) Their sidewalls are pretty thin and fragile.
4) I had a long "thread" fray off the circumference of the tire just above the bead.
5) Average cornering grip and wet grip

The jury is out on the Vittoria Corsa G2.0s. So far my only major observation is they have the best grip of any tubeless tire I've tested, and it's not even close.

warp
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:59 am

by warp

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:58 am


There's also a list of minor issues that will keep me from using GP5Ks in the future:

4) I had a long "thread" fray off the circumference of the tire just above the bead.
5) Average cornering grip and wet grip

The jury is out on the Vittoria Corsa G2.0s. So far my only major observation is they have the best grip of any tubeless tire I've tested, and it's not even close.
Regarding the fraying thread... I've had something similar happening on my Hutchinson Sectors. There is a layer of fabric at the bead that after a few times of putting the tyre on/off the rim, it partially delaminates and gets caught between the bead itself at the rim when re-inflating. This makes difficult to seat the tyre properly but other than that it has had no other ill effects.

Have you tried the Sector? how would it compared to the Corsa and the 11 Storm tyres?

Thanks!

warp
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:59 am

by warp

Delete... Duplicated

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

warp wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:24 am

Have you tried the Sector? how would it compared to the Corsa and the 11 Storm tyres?

Thanks!

I have not tried Sectors, but my pal likes them as a sort of all-season tire.

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DOUG
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:58 am
DOUG wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:25 am

The TLR 11 Storm is the best ive tried so far, I strongly suspect that would be right up there with the Pro Ones. Easily better for grip levels and durability (so far) than the Pro Ones and I find them better at absorbing road buzz. Once I wear these out I might give the Yksion Pro UST or the GP5000 TL a go. You've ridden both Im pretty sure, any reason why you would choose one over the other?

I think the 11Storm based tires (including the Yksion Pro UST) are the best all-rounders. The GP5K TL is definitely faster and also has decent wear life, but I find they have borderline cornering grip and wet grip.

There's also a list of minor issues that will keep me from using GP5Ks in the future:
1) They are hard to mount on some rims.
2) It seems like they soak up sealant.
3) Their sidewalls are pretty thin and fragile.
4) I had a long "thread" fray off the circumference of the tire just above the bead.
5) Average cornering grip and wet grip

The jury is out on the Vittoria Corsa G2.0s. So far my only major observation is they have the best grip of any tubeless tire I've tested, and it's not even close.
Thanks for that, might give the GP5K a miss TBH. The other factor that has prevented me from getting them is that they're like AUD100 each here in Australia.

Still at least 3-4 more months until my Hutchisons wear out so will see what sort of reviews the Vittoria's get long term. Otherwise I might try the Hutchisons in 28's just for a back to back comparison.

Sock3t
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by Sock3t

Not in my experience.

RedbullFiXX
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Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

Have over 600mi on these Vittoria Corsa G2.0s with Vittoria latex tubes
Reynolds AR58 (19mm int), (23mm, actual width 25.2) @65psi
Reynolds AR58 (19mm int), (25mm, actual width 28.2) @70psi
Luxurious ride on the Aeroad, done a few century rides. Feel fresh enough for a few sprints afterwards
Tire wear is nominal, very few cuts
So far better wear, with similar ride to Corsa CX tires, corner grip when pushed is confidence inspring :thumbup:
Cyclocross, in general, is about riding the wrong bike for the conditions.

jasonh
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 6:55 pm

by jasonh

JoO wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:24 am
Back on topic:
Is tubeless more comfortable than cotton clinchers + latex inner tubes?

1) Tire pressure seems to me to be the dominant factor. If you can run lower pressures with tubeless it is likely more comfortable. Within reason of course don't suspect you gatorskins to magically become a flying carpet.

2) For the same pressure cotton + latex tubes is likely more comfortable. The sidewalls are covered in latex as opposed to vulcanized rubber for the tubeless variant. Latex is more "elastic". The cotton threads might also be marginally suppler (less stiff) then the nylon stands that are often used in vulcanised tires.

video by silca on latex tubes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUpq27mG2CM

According to Tom Anhalt the rr difference between a tubless tires with and without a latex inner tube is almost inmeasurable.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
I don’t think lower pressure tubeless tires are as comfortable as nice cotton/latex clincher setup.
To me, there’s something Nice, about running “normal” pressures, and feeling the edge of the vibrations taken down buy the cotton and latex compared to a lower pressure tubeless that basically mutes everything but the big hits.

I think comfort, or feel Doesn’t have much to do with which setup is technically faster.
It’s like a fine steel bike allows you to feel all the road cracks and vibrations from the pavements, but tones it down for a comfortable and reactive ride. Where the same ride on a CF race bike beats the piss out of you, or a CF comfort bike mutes everything out to nothing, which comparably dull and boring

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Tubeless tyres vary in comfort. IRC and hutchinson storm 11 are very good. Conti is pretty good, Vittoria tlr was not a good as I hoped it would be, Goodyear eagle was not nice. Schwalbe pro one lasted one ride with me so they hopeless. Maxxis padrone was IRC like in comfort so pretty good really .

Corsa and pave clinchers with latex tubes are very good but it hard to tell them apart from good tubeless tyres. Now dugast tubulars tyres are ahead of everything for comfort.

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Miller
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Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Had a pair of hutch sectors for a while. Very tough, absolutely would not wear out. Wet grip slightly questionable.

sychen
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:06 pm

by sychen

I've gone from Specialized Turbo Cottons to Specialized Rapid air tubeless.. So as close to similar as possible. Both 28mms..though the Rapidair measure wider.

Best feel is still TC with latex.. Rapidairs can be a bit "thumpy" in some situations (high speed bumps at the right frequency). Definitely better than butyl tubes..

Latex when not flatting is the best... But can have odd failures and leaks. Rapidairs with sealant so far have been terrific and doesn't need as much filling of air before every ride.. Compared to latex. Haven't had a major flat yet.. Just a pin prick that sealed up unnoticed on the ride and found afterwards.

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by Weenie


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