Are tubeless tires more comfortable than cotton clinchers + latex tubes?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

I haven't got a chance to really ride the new breed of tubeless tires. I was wondering for anyone who have used the latest tubeless such as the gp5000 or the vittoria corsa tlr 2.0, how do they fare in terms of comfort compared to cotton clincer set up with latex inner tube? I find the latter combo so good in every way that I haven't bothered with the tubeless set up yet. I either use the Specialized Turbo Cotton or the 1st gen Vittoria Corsa G+.

The bicyclerollingresistance site just released the test result for the new Corsa G+ 2.0 (none tubeless version) and it's 3 watts slower than the GP5000 TL. This makes me want to try out the conti tubeless.

Thoughts?

by Weenie


zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

They should be on par, the tubeless versions are a bit heavier, now if that adds any minus to comfort would be hard to test but you also use less pressure on tubeless so I guess it would be a little more comfortable overall.

28mm 320tpi tubeless would be a joy to ride

fattywilliams
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:43 pm

by fattywilliams

I have the conti 5k tl they defiently feel fast people say about the extra weight but in most cases unless you use super light latex tubes the setup is still lighter with 20 or 30ml of sealant

Thwy are fast and grippy but I think the side walls are stiffer than my old gp 4k so I'd say less cofortable but I am a Fatass so run them at 90psi still

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

The GP5K TL is 4.7w faster than the Corsa. The GP5K non-TL is 3w faster.

I’m using non-TL with a light butyl tube. That should put me about 1w slower than the GP5K TL. I won’t use latex.

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ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

The cotton casing and latex inner tube give you that suppleness you dont really get from Standard clincher tires. I really really like this feeling. It can come close to that tubular feel.

But of course this is comparing two clincher types. If the vulcanized gp5000 outer casing run more supple (in tubeless version) than my set up i would be all over it.

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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

If you like the cotton feel then you will be disappointed with vulcanized tires. You should just stick to cotton + latex.

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DOUG
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

ichobi wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
I haven't got a chance to really ride the new breed of tubeless tires. I was wondering for anyone who have used the latest tubeless such as the gp5000 or the vittoria corsa tlr 2.0, how do they fare in terms of comfort compared to cotton clincer set up with latex inner tube? I find the latter combo so good in every way that I haven't bothered with the tubeless set up yet. I either use the Specialized Turbo Cotton or the 1st gen Vittoria Corsa G+.

The bicyclerollingresistance site just released the test result for the new Corsa G+ 2.0 (none tubeless version) and it's 3 watts slower than the GP5000 TL. This makes me want to try out the conti tubeless.

Thoughts?
I have run Vittoria Corsa G+ (Latex tubes), Schwalbe Pro One's (Tubeless) and Hutchison Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm (Tubeless) and I can safely say the tubeless tyres are a better ride than the Corsa's. I can run them at lower pressures for starters and they are also less prone to punctures than the Vittorias. Havent run the Turbo Cottons but even if they're on par in ride quality with the Hutchisons for example, they would be far more prone to punctures and from what I've read on here, wear out much much faster. I got about 4,000km out of my Pro Ones and expect to get about the same, if not more out of my Fusions.

alcatraz
Posts: 2214
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

If I may borrow the thead a little I'd like to ask...

How much more mileage on average do you get with tubeless tires compared to their normal counterpart? Seems their extra beefyness does benefit wear resistance.

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Don't think the extra weight goes to puncture protection, but making the sidewalls stiffer and airtight so tread wear should be similar.

1415chris
Posts: 1285
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

ichobi wrote:The cotton casing and latex inner tube give you that suppleness you dont really get from Standard clincher tires. I really really like this feeling. It can come close to that tubular feel.

But of course this is comparing two clincher types. If the vulcanized gp5000 outer casing run more supple (in tubeless version) than my set up i would be all over it.
That is more less within my thinking. Yet the tests show that these stiffer tyres are faster than supple ones. And completely mind-bogggling for me is how Conti 5K tl with its 60 tpi is even faster. 60 tpi puts this tyre within garden hose category.
I have big reservations for direct transfer drum tests into real road applications.


zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

You need something like cobbles for a supple tire (or using less air pressure) to win over a stiffer tire (or one that has more air pressure in it).
Most simple road vibrations wouldn't count on making a 320tpi faster so that is why GP5K wins, because even at 60tpi the compound itself they use is faster. For training, all day comfort would be a better choice than a bit faster rolling tire though.

ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

DOUG wrote:
ichobi wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
I haven't got a chance to really ride the new breed of tubeless tires. I was wondering for anyone who have used the latest tubeless such as the gp5000 or the vittoria corsa tlr 2.0, how do they fare in terms of comfort compared to cotton clincer set up with latex inner tube? I find the latter combo so good in every way that I haven't bothered with the tubeless set up yet. I either use the Specialized Turbo Cotton or the 1st gen Vittoria Corsa G+.

The bicyclerollingresistance site just released the test result for the new Corsa G+ 2.0 (none tubeless version) and it's 3 watts slower than the GP5000 TL. This makes me want to try out the conti tubeless.

Thoughts?
I have run Vittoria Corsa G+ (Latex tubes), Schwalbe Pro One's (Tubeless) and Hutchison Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm (Tubeless) and I can safely say the tubeless tyres are a better ride than the Corsa's. I can run them at lower pressures for starters and they are also less prone to punctures than the Vittorias. Havent run the Turbo Cottons but even if they're on par in ride quality with the Hutchisons for example, they would be far more prone to punctures and from what I've read on here, wear out much much faster. I got about 4,000km out of my Pro Ones and expect to get about the same, if not more out of my Fusions.
Interesting. If the tire widths are the same in both set up wouldn't you run them both at around the same pressure? I run my cotton clinchers and latex at around 70psi.

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ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

zefs wrote:You need something like cobbles for a supple tire (or using less air pressure) to win over a stiffer tire (or one that has more air pressure in it).
Most simple road vibrations wouldn't count on making a 320tpi faster so that is why GP5K wins, because even at 60tpi the compound itself they use is faster. For training, all day comfort would be a better choice than a bit faster rolling tire though.
I don't doubt this as more comfort does not necessarily means being faster even though the 320tpi casing may offer good vibration damping (hence less micro bouncing and thus higher efficiency) a fast compound might still win out on pure speed. The Continental tt tires are vulcanized and they are one of the fastest too.

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DOUG
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 pm

by DOUG

ichobi wrote:
DOUG wrote:
ichobi wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
I haven't got a chance to really ride the new breed of tubeless tires. I was wondering for anyone who have used the latest tubeless such as the gp5000 or the vittoria corsa tlr 2.0, how do they fare in terms of comfort compared to cotton clincer set up with latex inner tube? I find the latter combo so good in every way that I haven't bothered with the tubeless set up yet. I either use the Specialized Turbo Cotton or the 1st gen Vittoria Corsa G+.

The bicyclerollingresistance site just released the test result for the new Corsa G+ 2.0 (none tubeless version) and it's 3 watts slower than the GP5000 TL. This makes me want to try out the conti tubeless.

Thoughts?
I have run Vittoria Corsa G+ (Latex tubes), Schwalbe Pro One's (Tubeless) and Hutchison Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm (Tubeless) and I can safely say the tubeless tyres are a better ride than the Corsa's. I can run them at lower pressures for starters and they are also less prone to punctures than the Vittorias. Havent run the Turbo Cottons but even if they're on par in ride quality with the Hutchisons for example, they would be far more prone to punctures and from what I've read on here, wear out much much faster. I got about 4,000km out of my Pro Ones and expect to get about the same, if not more out of my Fusions.
Interesting. If the tire widths are the same in both set up wouldn't you run them both at around the same pressure? I run my cotton clinchers and latex at around 70psi.

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Sure but the risk of pinch flats is increased the lower you go with tubes in. I run 70psi on 25mm tire without the risk of getting a pinch flat.

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4192
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

1415chris wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:52 am
ichobi wrote:The cotton casing and latex inner tube give you that suppleness you dont really get from Standard clincher tires. I really really like this feeling. It can come close to that tubular feel.

But of course this is comparing two clincher types. If the vulcanized gp5000 outer casing run more supple (in tubeless version) than my set up i would be all over it.
That is more less within my thinking. Yet the tests show that these stiffer tyres are faster than supple ones. And completely mind-bogggling for me is how Conti 5K tl with its 60 tpi is even faster. 60 tpi puts this tyre within garden hose category.
I have big reservations for direct transfer drum tests into real road applications.

Why would you have reservations? The sidewall of the GP5K TL is 0.95mm thick. The sidewall on a Vittoria Corsa G2.0 non-tubeless clincher is 0.90mm. Now add friction losses from an 80g latex tube vs 30g of sealant...

by Weenie


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