Silca brand

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
froze
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

petosagan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:09 pm
How silca stuff can be so expensive...
Pump floor 400-500$.
Some small tools - 200$ etc etc..


Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
Extreme quality? BS!!! They are not extreme quality stuff, they are marketed towards the wealthy person who rides $8,000 plus bikes and cost is of no matter.

Silca floor pumps, look you can buy several brands of floor pumps that will last a lifetime if you find a model that has a rebuild kit for it; Silca won't last forever, that's why they sell a rebuild kit!! Lezyne CNC Drive is a beautiful floor pump that's rebuildable if you have a road bike, they have a couple of different models so you have look at them; also the Topeak Joe Blow Sport 3, or the Joe Blow Sprint, both are great, as is the Serfas FMP-500, Velowurks Prime, and the one that I own and like, not saying it's better than the others but at least their equal, and that's the Birzman Maha Apogee II, I got mine about 2 years ago and it was only $50 on sale but now I see they're $72 on sale $90 when not. Price on cycling stuff has skyrocketed in the last 2 or 3 years.

Tool wise you have to be careful buying tools to make sure you get what you need and not a bunch of crap you'll never use. X-Tools makes a very nice torque wrench kit that comes with all the same stuff as the Silca but for $70 less! AND it got very high reviews.

Ball Hex tools, first off even if you do buy Silca there is no reason to get the fancy wood box! So if you get the travel one you save money, however tools used on bikes don't require a lot of torque like a car might require, so a reasonably made set like this works fine: https://www.amazon.com/d/Allen-Wrenches ... B00I5THF4W In fact this set comes with a much wider assortment of hex sizes you may need for other projects. If you want something a bit better quality this set can't be beat not even by Silca: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013 ... CPEQ5WQ3EG

You have to know that there are companies out there that have an elitist attitude and will sell stuff for way more money than their worth because they have the "name" of something that represents the classic vintage Italian era, and none of what they sell is any better than other stuff for half the price and even more than half the price as you can tell.

by Weenie


Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

And that would apply to most if not all designer 'stuff'.

I do not see why it is wrong to market your items for people that have money. Those clients usually have enough that they can spend it more than someone that is barely making it by. It's not your money their wasting.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

Butcher wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:55 pm
And that would apply to most if not all designer 'stuff'.

I do not see why it is wrong to market your items for people that have money. Those clients usually have enough that they can spend it more than someone that is barely making it by. It's not your money their wasting.
It would just be awfully nice, if the stuff they market as well tested and high quality, was in fact that.
Then we could debate the price, but as it's a polished turd........

RocketRacing
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I like silca. I like their digital floir pump, i like the hiro chuck, i like the blog info, i like the speedbalance tabs, i like the podcast, i like that their t-shirt has the same car i own, i like that the owner answers questions, and is passionate about the details of the hobby.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

:lol: :beerchug:

basilic
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:56 pm
mix of parafines and EP additives
I had to google it, and EP means "extreme pressure"
Mr magura, why EP when the gear is pushed by a puny human?
I use hot wax, and have read on the internet that it's useful to add graphite powder, the stuff to lube locks. I do it, mostly because then it becomes a magic ritual. Does the graphite serve any purpose?

apologies for the drift

MiddMan
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

Wow. A lot of polarisation here. I wouldn’t normally chime in but given that I have recently become a Silca customer, I feel that I should give an honest assessment. Firstly, while they do have some pricey items, those items are usually part of a broad range. So you could get a $400 pump or a $99 pump.

Secondly, I don’t know why people are smearing a company for (a) good business practices and, moreover, in my personal experience, (b) great customer service. With more and more companies moving to China (including lots of US and European brands) it’s refreshing to see a company that has invested in a US base. Before I bought my pump, I called up the company, spoke to a real person, asked some questions about pumps, then bought from a reputable online dealer as it was an older model so killer deal. I’ll post more detail on thread I started tomorrow, but suffice it to say for now: I have no ties to Silca other than being a new customer but I for one genuinely appreciate that I’m able to talk to real people at a US based company. I acknowledge that it costs more to support US jobs than jobs in China, and I respect that.

Finally, I feel like I’ve encountered the argument “expensive = bad or for posers or whatever” (name your criticism) more and more frequently on this site. Look, I will be the first person to lament the increasing (and in my view increasingly ridiculous) cost of cycling. It’s one of the reasons it took me so long to finally upgrade my bike!! When I started out 20 years ago, things were a fraction of what they are now. But in my view, at least US or Italian or French-made products can somewhat justify the higher price tag. (NOTE: this does NOT necessarily mean that products made in Asia are inferior in terms of craftsmanship, only that economic realities mean that costs are much higher in G7 countries.)

If I may just end with an analogy and hopefully this can be the end of it. If you cook frequently you could get some cheap knives and a plastic cutting board, all for under $50 maybe. It would do the trick and last a while, maybe several years. Or, if you actually enjoy cooking, you might invest in some German steel or depending on your cutting style some hand-forged Japanese kitchen knives, and pair those with a nicely finished natural wood butcher block. This combination would cost hundreds of dollars more, and also last a very long time, potentially a lifetime. Neither decision is intrinsically right or wrong. But for those who appreciate craftsmanship, I imagine they see the value in Silca as in other similar companies with likeminded ethos. Peace.

sedluk
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:10 am

by sedluk

I bought one of the uber expensive pumps and had nothing but trouble with it, if I was happy with the pump it would have been fine. I ended up giving it away to a friend who thought it was sooo super cool. I am happy to have the thing out of my garage.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

MiddMan wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:05 am
Wow. A lot of polarisation here. I wouldn’t normally chime in but given that I have recently become a Silca customer, I feel that I should give an honest assessment. Firstly, while they do have some pricey items, those items are usually part of a broad range. So you could get a $400 pump or a $99 pump.

Secondly, I don’t know why people are smearing a company for (a) good business practices and, moreover, in my personal experience, (b) great customer service. With more and more companies moving to China (including lots of US and European brands) it’s refreshing to see a company that has invested in a US base. Before I bought my pump, I called up the company, spoke to a real person, asked some questions about pumps, then bought from a reputable online dealer as it was an older model so killer deal. I’ll post more detail on thread I started tomorrow, but suffice it to say for now: I have no ties to Silca other than being a new customer but I for one genuinely appreciate that I’m able to talk to real people at a US based company. I acknowledge that it costs more to support US jobs than jobs in China, and I respect that.

Finally, I feel like I’ve encountered the argument “expensive = bad or for posers or whatever” (name your criticism) more and more frequently on this site. Look, I will be the first person to lament the increasing (and in my view increasingly ridiculous) cost of cycling. It’s one of the reasons it took me so long to finally upgrade my bike!! When I started out 20 years ago, things were a fraction of what they are now. But in my view, at least US or Italian or French-made products can somewhat justify the higher price tag. (NOTE: this does NOT necessarily mean that products made in Asia are inferior in terms of craftsmanship, only that economic realities mean that costs are much higher in G7 countries.)

If I may just end with an analogy and hopefully this can be the end of it. If you cook frequently you could get some cheap knives and a plastic cutting board, all for under $50 maybe. It would do the trick and last a while, maybe several years. Or, if you actually enjoy cooking, you might invest in some German steel or depending on your cutting style some hand-forged Japanese kitchen knives, and pair those with a nicely finished natural wood butcher block. This combination would cost hundreds of dollars more, and also last a very long time, potentially a lifetime. Neither decision is intrinsically right or wrong. But for those who appreciate craftsmanship, I imagine they see the value in Silca as in other similar companies with likeminded ethos. Peace.
As I seem to be one of the people you address here, let me clear up a few things.

I have no problem with the price tag, what so ever. That part was obvious before buying the product, and to be honest, I'm well aware that a higher price tag at best, is a game of diminishing returns.
I am talking about marketing BS running wild, and a flawed product that doesn't even resemble the marketing claims.
Selling somethng where you cut corners, as the ultimate in quality, does not sit well with me.
In fact there's a word for such actions!

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

basilic wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:39 am
MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:56 pm
mix of parafines and EP additives
I had to google it, and EP means "extreme pressure"
Mr magura, why EP when the gear is pushed by a puny human?
I use hot wax, and have read on the internet that it's useful to add graphite powder, the stuff to lube locks. I do it, mostly because then it becomes a magic ritual. Does the graphite serve any purpose?

apologies for the drift
You have to do a bit of pocket math here :wink:
Assume a rider that weighs 100kg, a 175mm crank arm, and for the ease of it, say a 39T chain ring of say 175mm diameter.
Pins of the chain are approx 3mm in diameter, and let's be boring and say the load bearing part of the pins is 3mm wide.

100kg is approx. 1kN, which is doubled by the lever as the chain is being pulled at approx. half way out the crank arm, so 2kN.

The load bearing surface of the chain pin-chain link interface, is probably something to the tune of 3 or 4mm2.
Let's pick 4mm2 for the ease of calculation.
So 2kN / 4mm2 = 500N/mm2.

500N/mm2 is a brutal load, in spite of the muppet riding the bike is by no means a powerful engine.

That's where EP additives comes into the picture, as a chain by default is running under poor conditions, with lubrication being anything but optimal.

Adding solids to chain lube, makes little sense, as the porosity of the surface of the load bearing elements, is very low. Teflon, Graphite, and so forth, needs porosity to work, as it needs something to adhere to.

The general point of view on lubricants, is that universal lubricant exists, and by mixing all the possible additives that are good for something, that is what you get.
This is however about as wrong as it could be.
You can make a lubricant that will work to some degree in most applications, but it will always be flawed, the only question is to which degree it is so.
It always reminds me of Pippi Longstocking, creating a medication that will cure anything, by mixing all the pills and what not she could find.

uraqt
Posts: 897
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

@MrMagura

So, what brands do you think are "better"?

C

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

No idea about brands. I haven't used commercial chain lube since FinishLine sponsored the team I was working for.
That would be at least 20 years ago.

Technically they can only be as good as, or worse than paraffin and EP.
Though I fail to see why anyone would pay a premium for the branding, when it can be made on the kitchen table for pennies.
Throw in that you can have a lube that is designed, for exactly the conditions you are riding under, and buying it makes zero sense.
That is, if you ride a bit. People that do the occasional 10km trip with the kids, have no benefit, but the rest of us save time, effort, and money.

As somebody stated earlier, hot waxing is no big deal, and if you make a lube heater out of a rice cooker, and put in a sift that is kept some 15-20mm above the bottom, you can clean and lube in one process, as the dirt falls through the sift, and ends up at the bottom.

Also there seem to be a myth about getting rid of the factory lube. I simply wash it off with the hot wax.
Takes like 30 minutes per 5 chains (max capacity of the rice cooker), and you're done.
After that you're back to 10-15 minutes per 5 chains as usual.

User avatar
otoman
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

MrMagura, would be much appreciated if you would post a “how I do it” on your hot wax technique.... maybe a separate thread to keep it clean. You’ve hit a lot of the high points on your technique but I’m sure the devil is in the details.

Thanks!
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

otoman wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 pm
MrMagura, would be much appreciated if you would post a “how I do it” on your hot wax technique.... maybe a separate thread to keep it clean. You’ve hit a lot of the high points on your technique but I’m sure the devil is in the details.

Thanks!
I'll see if I can get around to do that.
Where would you place such a topic here?
I'm not super familiar with the WW forum.

by Weenie


basilic
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

Thanks MrM!
MrMagura wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:09 pm
Where would you place such a topic here?
new topic in Chat?

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