Tubular Sealants

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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lord_brush
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:34 pm

by lord_brush

I know, it's frowned upon by many (Inc myself), but I'm thinking of trying training on set of tubular wheels.

I'd rather not have to carry a spare tub, and rely on the gods and.....sealant. I see it as I have two choices- leave the tubs and deal with it with something like Pit Stop if I puncture, or pre-fill the tubs with something like Orange Seal.

Does OS work ok at higher pressures? Also, if it didn't work entirely successfully, would lobbing Pit Stop in there too cause some kind of apocalyptic fusion of gloop and a call of shame to the wife?

Oh, and as a further precaution, can tyre worms be used successfully with tubs in the event of a larger puncture hole/ cut?
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Carry a sapre tub strapped under the saddle preglued. The simple solution is the best. Pit stop does not always works and sealant in your tub is fine for the small punctures not the bigger ones. Also under you wear the tub out before your sealant dries out you can be in toruble. clogged valves are a problem in tubs. Also selant can stick latex tubes together. selant also prevents a repair being done on a tub. I would never use selant again in a tubular tyre having tried it it is a waste of time. In fact I cant think of a time very selant has actually helped. The tub I had with selant in was a gatorskin and it selaed only at 40 psi. I ran it for a bit like that but removed the tyre. The tyre could not be repaired. If I had not had selant in it I would have changed the tyre at the side of the road and then been able to repair the punctured tub. As it is I had a tyre that was fit for the bin.

A tub has an inner tube or membrane if its a tufo tub. orms cannot be used in such tyres. It is very fustrating that the sealant thing with tubs is still pushed by some on this forum. If sealant was that good it would recommended by the tyre manufacturer. It isn't.

by Weenie


alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'd only use sealant after a puncture and in a small amount.

There are videos of people fixing punctures with superglue and thin preglued patches.

There are also 160gr spare tires.

gurk700
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Some tufo tubs fit in a tiny saddlebag. Or jersey pocket if you don't like saddlebags. It will get you home.
I have a 4 out of 5 luck with sealants. It didn't repair 1 time and had to do the walk of shame.

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:42 pm
.. It is very fustrating that the sealant thing with tubs is still pushed by some on this forum. If sealant was that good it would recommended by the tyre manufacturer. It isn't.
I will unashamedly take ownership of being one of those people. I use Orange Seal (Regular, not Endurance), and it's a godsend for tubular road users. I run primarily Veloflex (latex tubes) and Continental Competition (butyl tubes) and unlike @bm0p00f I can't think of a time where it hasn't worked. I flat very rarely as it is, but what a pain it would be to automatically just resort to tearing off a tubular, reinstalling a spare, riding home, removing the spare and gluing on a new good tubular... if you don't have to. If I puncture, I remove the valve core and add about 10-15ml of Orange Seal, let it settle where the hole is for a minute or two, pump it up, and off I go... and it's generally good for the remaining life of the tire. Of course it's true you're not going to use it as a spare once sealant is in it and that's one of the reason I only use it as a preventative measure. Although, since I'm flush with spares that have never needed the use of sealant now, I suppose the other reason is pyschological in that I think I'm sullying the tubular somewhat once I've added sealant... it throws off the zen of it all. Lol. But really... sealant makes using tubulars as your daily drivers a non issue as far as I'm concerned.

Here's my complete toolkit (for all repairs, not just flat fixes), that I take on every ride...
Image

And here it is all out for display...
Image


The little Swiss Army knife is useful for picking out foreign objects that might get embedded in your tire, the little presta/shrader valve helps if someone doesn't have the right valve that I'm helping, or you have to use a gas station for air. The old Mavic hub tool makes a fine implement for getting underneath a tubular and prying it off a rim if needed (like hardly ever). The small tufo bottle (with the orange seal cap), is just a container I use to put the Orange Seal in as Orange Seal doesn't make a conveniently small container to take along on rides unfortunately. And yes, Orange Seal is good for tubulars. A hell of a lot better than PittStop that's for sure. And I guess Vittoria recommends PittStop for tubulars. Although i wouldn't recommend it for anything. Use Orange Seal (Regular). The regular seals better than the Endurance. Remember, tubular isn't tubeless. We don't need all that stinkin mess. Lol.
Oh, I don't mind the process of gluing tubulars at all, it's kind of satisfying in some strange way. But I will admit to hating the process of removing old glue from rims in preparation for a nice fresh glue job. I hate applying new glue over old. But overall, sealant has made the whole event of using tubulars really a non issue for me.

But I do take along a preglued spare, in a little drybag to keep out all the elements. Don't really understand just strapping an unprotected preglued tubular under your saddle to be free to pick up all kinds of dust and road grime that could get thrown at it during any ride... iphone 6 for size comparison...
Image

Image

A Veloflex Arrenberg that was stabbed by some piece of metal. Just noticed it sitting there while I was watching tv one evening. Went over to check it out and pulled it out fully expecting a rush of air, but nada... all was good, and the length of metal inside was even longer than the metal you see exposed. It must have just slid in between the tire and the latex tube. I'm thinking a butyl tube would not have survived that event, so here's to the expanding and resilient power of latex... here here...
Image
However, it's that same expanding power and ability to creep into the tiniest crevices that makes latex tubes a bit more dicey when used with clinchers, as if there's any opening in the interface between the bead and the rim, a latex tube might find it's way in there, then eventually.... Kaboom! With tubulars, the latex tube is safely and completely fully contained in the tire itself, so that is not a worry.

And tucked neatly out of the way... ready when needed, and peace of mind when not...
Image

Oh, and since we're talking about all things problematic, here's a valve core that was clogged. I finally wanted to see what causes a clogged valve core. See that little o-ring type of thing on the the skinny threaded rod... that's an o-ring made of sealant, which acts the same way to air going in as the proper valve does for air going out. Pick that out with a needle and good as new... all clean and air passes just fine again...
Image

And there you have it... all tubular, all the time, with a little help from our friends at Orange Seal.

Cheers! :beerchug:
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wintershade
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

@Cal — Thanks for this wonderful and intertwining post. You’ve just given me the courage to give tubulars another go for a training rides in the mountains this weekend.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Sealant has also failed to fix about half my tub punctures and prevented the repair of a few.

However tubs are quite practical I have done many longer rides on them with nothing more than spare tub or two. Carrying a spare is the only sure fire way I have found if being able to fix a puncture. Riding home on a flat tub that sealant has failed to fix is not much fun. Yes that has happened.

I have cleaned out many a valve core however sometimes the top of the stem is clogged. Then you have to carefully poke a cut spoke through to clear the valve but not puncture the tube.

Sealant with inner tubes is more trouble than it's worth. I have more confidence in a traditional repair than a sealant repair. I have been let down too many times. This is also why with tubeless I don't rely on the sealant to fix punctures.

A spare tub under the saddle is no trouble and it means I have to carry nothing in my pack pocket. Result.

Conti spare tubs are my favourite as they are less likely to puncture. How well they fold up is of not matter as they are not in my back pocket.

I love tubs. Now how my ultimate tyre would be my favourite tubeless tyre made into a tub. That I would preload with sealant as there is no tube and I can use tubular rims which are lighter and structurally better rims than clinchers.

This would be a tyre you could plug if the sealant fails to seal the puncture.

Why is this not being made and marketed.

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dj97223
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

PitStop and a phone.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

defride
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 4:26 pm

by defride

Haven't got on well with sealant in tubs. Orange seal and Stan's

The Orange Seal in a Tufo simply didn't seal. Less than 2mm hole which sealed in the workshop burped as soon as you tried to ride it. Stans worked on pin pricks but useless on anything bigger riding Vittora Gr.

Ditched the sealant and now carry a spare under the saddle and on longer rides one in the back pocket as well.

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dgasmd
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Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

-Used to carry pit stop for a few years and it never sealed a flat. Needless to say, I stopped buying/carrying it.

-I preload all new tubulars, which I ride exclusively like many here, with 50cc Stan Latex. Guessing it has sealed 1 out of every 10 flats. The other 9 it turns the flat into a rolling spray can.

-Carry a tightly folded Tufo tyre all the time. Fits very tight on the rims, and when inflated I have a hard time thinking it would come off. I live in flat lands, but if I was in mountains I would take it gingerly on descends.

-I wear out 9 out of 10 tubulars I mount. Tyre selection has a lot to do with it in my opinion. Use Continental Competition now. Used Vittoria Corsa before and would flat 3-4/10. Prior to that was Veloflex and would flat 5-6/10!!!

Just my personal experience locally!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

If it only fixes 1 n 10 flat and you wear out most tubs and this is weight weenies why add 100g and extra rolling reistance to your wheels for no actual gain.

Conti comps are hard to beat.

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dgasmd
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by dgasmd

bm0p700f wrote:If it only fixes 1 n 10 flat and you wear out most tubs and this is weight weenies why add 100g and extra rolling reistance to your wheels for no actual gain.

Conti comps are hard to beat.
Because even the one time it will save me having to stop mid ride, change the damn tire, limp home, remount a new one, and send the punctured one to get fixed is worth it to me!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

If it works for you.

joeyb1000
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

I haven't owned a clincher in 45 years.
Carry a spare under the seat or in an old bottle.
Sealant only works on very small holes.

by Weenie


MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

I have made a high pressure sealant, by mixing Stans with latex milk, 50-50.
So far between my circle of friends, I know of one puncture it didn't seal, since I introduced it spring '17

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