105 di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
quadzilla
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:42 am

by quadzilla

Was talking one of my friends who is a mechanic today. He said the Shimano rep told him to "watch out for 105 di2". Anyone have any other info/rumors?

Brynhildr
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Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:02 pm

by Brynhildr

Okay, This Is Epic

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I'll believe it when I see it. Di2 is basically the only differentiator between Ultegra and 105 anymore.

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rainerhq
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Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

Please, Shimano.
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robeambro
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by robeambro

That would probably lead to a sudden switch to electronic groupsets. Mech would not disappear but would be pretty much sidelined, in the same fashion as what disc brakes did to rim brakes.

If indeed 105 Di2 is launched, there would be little reason to buy Ultegra mech (you could pay roughly the same and have 105 Di2), similarly to what happens with many users opting for Ultegra Di2 rather than mechanical DA. And the "mid-range" mechanical offering suddenly becomes ever so thin.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

105 Di2 wouldn’t just cannibalize Ultegra mechanical sales, it would cannibalize UDi2 sales. I already see very little reason to buy Ultegra mechanical over 105 mechanical...

gravity
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

by gravity

What is the reasonable price for 105 di2? I guess if it’s priced at usd1,000 it would be really attractive


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Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

There's not really a huge scope for price reduction in 105 vs Ultegra DI2. All the e-tube parts (wires/junctions/batteries) would be directly shared, all the electronic parts inside the mechs and shifters would be the same, the only difference would be materials and finish on the housings. Realistically, whatever the current difference between 105 mech and Ultegra mech is (dollar amount, not percentage), that's what it would be.

Anyone who thinks hey, 105 is half the price of Ultegra, so 105 DI2 will be half the price of Ultegra DI2.... there's just no way.

Cemicar
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 am

by Cemicar

I think it's possible to release a 105 Di2 while securing existing Di2 groupsets. Ultegra Di2 used to have no sprinter switch port or no hidden button... who knows the same thing won't happen again to a possible 105 Di2. Those features can be already enough for buying Ultegra Di2 but synchronized shift also can be disabled if any more differentiation is needed.

Devaluing low-grade electronic groupset too much isn't a good idea. Campagnolo went so far as to deny compatibility between Athena and SR/Record EPS, but I'm not sure it was welcomed by the market given it was quickly gone, once renamed as Chorus EPS.

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Miller
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Cemicar wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:47 am
Devaluing low-grade electronic groupset too much isn't a good idea. Campagnolo went so far as to deny compatibility between Athena and SR/Record EPS, but I'm not sure it was welcomed by the market given it was quickly gone, once renamed as Chorus EPS.
Only by using a different connector. I think Athena/Chorus EPS was pretty much the same as SR/Record EPS under the bonnet, so to speak. The mechs certainly look the same other than surface finish. I have a couple of bikes on Athena EPS. I recently put the Record level Hydro EPS shifters on one of those bikes by soldering Record connectors to an Athena/Chorus interface unit, still with Athena battery and still with Athena derailleurs. Even with the new Ergos, all EPS function is maintained. Shifting is normal, battery check etc normal, derailleur adjustments are normal, no warning light on interface unit.

With motors and electronics basically the same it's hard to see how to make a lower-level e-group significantly cheaper than the higher level groups. Campag couldn't manage it. Maybe Shimano will simply through the sheer volume they would be likely to ship.

mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Miller wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:48 pm
With motors and electronics basically the same it's hard to see how to make a lower-level e-group significantly cheaper than the higher level groups. Campag couldn't manage it. Maybe Shimano will simply through the sheer volume they would be likely to ship.
Once the development and tooling is paid for most of the cost is simply what the market will bear. Even in small volumes the electronic components for Di2 will cost next to nothing. I'd not be at all surprised if the *actual* cost of making a rear mech only doubles when you add electronic shifting. Shifters are probably easier and simpler to make than mechs. Front mech will be more added cost, as they are so simple to make in the first place.

In reality they could change the finish on an ultegra groupset, few suble machining changes, bung it out at a 25% discount over Ultegra and *still* make a profit.

Christ, it's whats 75% of the consumer good manufacturers have been doing for decades.
Last edited by mattr on Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ooo
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

viewtopic.php?t=144106 - this was 2 years ago and now it is cancelled (details removed after they disappeared from shimano.com)
There will be some new di2 parts ultegra level, and non-di2 parts tiagra level, some non-group parts, but no 105 updates
One of the nice things this year there will be new Shimano centerlock rotor with a very beatiful design
'

gravity
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

by gravity

105 di2 disc is what i look forward the most. Imagine a nice and slim hood..


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Ritxis
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

ooo wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:29 pm
viewtopic.php?t=144106 - this was 2 years ago and now it is cancelled (details removed after they disappeared from shimano.com)
There will be some new di2 parts ultegra level, and non-di2 parts tiagra level, some non-group parts, but no 105 updates
One of the nice things this year there will be new Shimano centerlock rotor with a very beatiful design
That means, they take out the 1X cranks, with chainring alignment, to optimize the chain line..............???

by Weenie


ooo
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

new 2x chain line standard, incompatible with everything else
'

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