Enve 4.5 AR Disc w/ Continental GP 5000 TL

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

So to be clear, I know I am not supposed to run the new 5000 TLs on my Enve 4.5 AR Disc wheels, even though the 28c 5000 TL seems like a match made in heaven for these wheels.

Enve states on their website that the 5000 TL is not to be used with the 4.5s, and Continental states on the sidewall of the 5000 TL that it is to be used with hooked rims only. So Enve and Continental are on the same page here, though unclear if they both independently came to this conclusion or if Enve is just respecting the limitation imposed by Continental.

So if any of us marry this tire and wheel, all warranties will be voided and we should prepare for injury, disfigurement, and death. No one here is recommending this combo and if you run it yourself, prepare for a gruesome demise. Got it, hopefully we're all covered now.

But does anyone know why the 5000 TL is "incompatible" with hookless rims, while lots of other tires (including the Pro Ones that I run) are OK? Is there something different about the 5000 TLs from these other tires or is this Continental being conservative and making the decision that they don't want to officially endorse road hookless?

And is this because Continental (and Enve?) are worried that someone is going to pump up these tires to 120psi and blow them off the rim? Or is this a concern at proper pressures for a large volume tire? At 74kg, I run my 28c Pro Ones at 55psi and this is what I would use for the 5000 TLs.

Is the bead on the 5000 TL different from other tires where it is more likely to blow off a hookless rim? Again, I know we're instructed not to ride this tire and wheel together, I'm just not at all clear as to why.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4198
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The bead on GP5K TL is oversized and more likely to slip over the bead-lock...the only component of a hookless rim that holds the bead in place.

refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Oh. Didn't know that. An oversized bead certainly would explain the aversion to hookless.

Interestingly, I was ready to move on and check if the Corsa G2.0 TLRs are OK by Enve, and I came across this. It seems that not only are the new Corsas "TBD" with the 4.5s pending testing, so are the 5000 TLs. So perhaps there is hope yet!

Image
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

spdntrxi
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I thought 5000TL were the ones that say "do not use on hookless rims" right on the sidewall...

refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Yes, the 5000 TLs do indeed say that right on the sidewall. And it looks like Enve agrees, as on their webpage for the 4.5 AR Discs, they have moved the 5000 TLs from "pending testing" to "incompatible/not recommended." Bummer!
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

Mikedb
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 am

by Mikedb

To answer your question, ENVE is currently testing this combo right now.

So the current "incompatible" is just to cover themselves until they know whether it's safe to use or not.

Just call them and ask. They are super helpful/ transparent and can give you an update as to how things are looking right now.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4198
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Mikedb wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:49 pm
To answer your question, ENVE is currently testing this combo right now.

So the current "incompatible" is just to cover themselves until they know whether it's safe to use or not.

Just call them and ask. They are super helpful/ transparent and can give you an update as to how things are looking right now.

They tested the tire already and now officially list it as incompatible.

Mikedb
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 am

by Mikedb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:02 pm
Mikedb wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:49 pm
To answer your question, ENVE is currently testing this combo right now.

So the current "incompatible" is just to cover themselves until they know whether it's safe to use or not.

Just call them and ask. They are super helpful/ transparent and can give you an update as to how things are looking right now.

They tested the tire already and now officially list it as incompatible.
Makes sense.

I last spoke with them over a month ago and they said things weren't looking good.

Bummer as I really like the gp5k.

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TonyM
Posts: 3263
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

What is the official reason given by Enve?

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Calnago
Posts: 8549
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Tire manufacturers fault. Lol.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

The 5000 TLs are crazy easy to mount & remove - WAY easier than the Pro Ones I have been riding for the past 3 years or so. I think the bead on them may be just a bit larger than most other tubeless tires, which makes them easy to mount/remove but doesn't help them stay on when mounted on hookless rims.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

jlok
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

TonyM wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:41 pm
What is the official reason given by Enve?
This is the reply from Enve.

I just had out VP of engineering notify us this week that the testing came out positive for the Vittoria Corsa TLR tires. So you should be fine with those we just haven't updated the website yet. The GP 5000 TL though are not compatible with the AR wheels. The bead strength was just not strong enough to stay on that type of rim.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4198
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Go back and listen to the CyclingTips podcast where they talked to a Conti rep. Conti's foray into tubeless is a bit half-ass as they are using their own bead dimensions, tolerances, etc.

https://cyclingtips.libsyn.com/breakdow ... s-tubeless

by Weenie


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