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Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:14 pm
by RocketRacing
MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:22 pm
Yes, a minor flaw I think you can find in most products, but major flaws that deducts from the functionality, sorry, not in a product costing 5-6 times of the regular market price.
What you're saying is, that because you happen to like the guy behind a product, he's free to peddle any sub standard quality product?

I just had the top product of Silca completely disassembled.
A lot of what I saw, was in no way impressive, but rather choices made for profit optimisation.
The arrogance it takes to keep on trying to explain the customer he's a clown, when the product design and quality is obviously flawed.....
Trust me, they know perfectly well that they're selling a polished turd.
Anything that you can't see without disassembling it, is adhered to the lowest possible standard.

I fail to see why you would try to defend that?
I am not sure i am defending as much as i am trying to get people to see things from both sides. (And maybe it is a rainy day and i like a good discussion).

Choices in product/design/materials are made for a reason. It may be a reason that is based on their values/design goals. Maybe their priorities are different than yours. Both may be correct valid opinions.

I prefer the idea of a compliant hose. I have never seen/touched a superpista ultimate however, so I can not really comment if i think it is a bad design or not. The digital pump has a rubber hose. It is fine by me. (I love it!). The pump also costs 200$ less. If i need to replace it in 25 years, but there is no warranty because it is not an “ultimate” level silca product... that is cool by me because that means i am still healthy enough to be riding bikes at that stage in my life.

And Josh seems like a passionate guy that focuses on details. So i do support that. 100%.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:42 pm
by RocketRacing
MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Sorry, but I usually charge for R&D work. You're saying we should be grateful if Silca would recieve our work for free?
I was under the impression that I had already paid them for doing the required R&D.
Take a wild guess as to why, I haven't posted a few pics of a pump that actually works, showing the solutions?


Yup! You should be so grateful that silca should recieve your work for free! (That is not at all what i am saying. I am saying, if you don’t like the hose design, tell them. And you did. Hopefully in a respectful way, because if you are the only one complaining, and are a jerk about it, they may ignore your feedback because they may label you as a bad egg. If lots of people have said it, they may change the design).

But dude, if you can make an even better pump, for less $$$, do it!!! Go for it! I personally love that kind of product. Guy sees product needing improvement, makes something better, cheaper. Mark it up a bit to make a living. I am cool with that. Sell it.

Market it. Get the word out on your superior product. Price goes up.

Not sure companies will let you legally market/sell the product using shelf bought parts however. Pretty easy to make the “best” using the “best” until the makers of those parts send you a cease and decist letter. That will require a contract with said parts manufacturers. Price goes up. Lawyers. Price goes up.

Now your selling too many pumps to build them in your shop/garage. Price goes up. Workers want health insurance. Price goes up. Maybe you spec a cheaper hose to keep costs in check. Some jerk sends you a nasty email saying the same hose was used on 10$ china pump, and it blew up, damaging their bike. Maybe one of your workers wanted more health insurance than you gave them... so they screwed with every pump they built that week. Someone slanders you all over internet and to anyone who will listen after a bad series of exchanged emails. Sales go down.

But do it. I am all for better products. I can see past one angry customer with a blown hose. But as a customer, I also support a company with a vision/personal touch. There are lots of good products out there competing for my money. “The best quality, and they just work.” That can be your slogan. I just gave you that for free. Marketing firms would charge you untold dollars for that marketing gem. But i give it to you for free, because i believe in you.

Maybe i will be your customer, maybe not. Maybe you don’t want me as a customer. Maybe you do, because you want a new pool. Just be ready to be on the recieving end. Some people will complain even for a 10$ pump that is 1000x better than any product (i am not suggesting you are that person).

Hope tou have a thick skin.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:42 pm
by Weenie

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:48 pm
by MrMagura
Let me know if you want a formula 1 superpista hose, you can have it for the cost of shipping.
Come on, it's red and shiny, only slightly useless, you know you want it :-D

As for choices made by Silca, it clearly had to be bling on the outside, and as cheap as possible on the inside, functionality was not really a concern.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:53 pm
by RocketRacing
But, that being said, if you are a skilled as i infer you to be, i totally get your frustration. You pay big $ for a product that you could assemble/make for cheaper. That is cool, because most people could not do as tou did. And you could probably do it faster than the time it took for you to read my long forum posts.

(Thanks for reading btw. We may disagree, and i may be a devils advocate out of boredom/entertainment, but i do appreciate the discusson)

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:09 am
by MrMagura
Rocket, I am in fact a business owner, so yeah, I know the drill. In fact what I do as a main business, is to create IP, and fix other peoples flawed designs.
That however does not justify the marketing BS running wild, while the product quality goes down the drian.

I appreciate your point of view, but when a company screws over their customers, and proceeds to give them the runaround when they get called out, I personally don't give a flying .....about their credentials and claimed good intentions.
Had they instead engaged in a solution oriented debate, I would by now have picked up an el cheapo pump at some place of lesser repute, and leant back waiting for the parts to make a proper pump, to land in my mailbox.
I in fact started out explaining what was causing the issues with their design, to which they responded by trying to convince me that it was a matter of user error.....and that's where I drew the line.
There was no way it would end up with me recieving what I have paid for, thus I decided to fix the issues myself, as having 25 years of warranty on a product that doesn't get used due to poor functionality, is not worth much.
Should some part fail in the future, I now know that I have to fix it myself, and to be honest, that's ok, given the alternative is to be taken for a clown by Silca.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:14 am
by MrMagura
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:53 pm
But, that being said, if you are a skilled as i infer you to be, i totally get your frustration. You pay big $ for a product that you could assemble/make for cheaper. That is cool, because most people could not do as tou did. And you could probably do it faster than the time it took for you to read my long forum posts.

(Thanks for reading btw. We may disagree, and i may be a devils advocate out of boredom/entertainment, but i do appreciate the discusson)
That's sure part of the frustration, besides feeling stupid for having faith in Silca.
I'd say the time saved is now very limited, but Silca got a lot of money and didn't keep their end of the deal, and I still have a fairly low quality product.

Well, at least it works now, and it has a racing blue hose :-)

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:18 am
by RocketRacing
MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:48 pm
Let me know if you want a formula 1 superpista hose, you can have it for the cost of shipping.
Come on, it's red and shiny, only slightly useless, you know you want it :-D

As for choices made by Silca, it clearly had to be bling on the outside, and as cheap as possible on the inside, functionality was not really a concern.
Maybe simplicity was part of it. Don’t confuse simplicity with cheap. Man i like to argue for the sake of arguing. :-D

But you know, f$&k-it, pm me your email and i will take you up on the cost of shipping. Snail mail, nothing fancy. Let me know the estimated cost and i will do an email bank transfer.

I am kind of curious about this said hose. It will be worth a few $ to have and hold. Plus, i like cars... so it will be cool to have a f1 brake hose, even if after touching it, i decide it is a poor choice for a bike pump. My bike is all 18k f1 style carbon, so maybe i will dig it. And if I do not, i bet my dad would (he is a big f1 fan, but has not ridden bikes since the 70’s on a pugeot race bike).

And my buddy was a hydraulics technician before retiring... if i like it enough, i might even see if he will put it on my pump for a few $. I will send you the photo if i do.

Also, if you make a pump, even if it is with off the shelf parts, contact me and i will buy it assuming it is a fair price. If i like it i will post on this forum. Free marketing. I will provide feedback in an honest and polite way, in effect giving you free r&d. I can be a beta tester. I can even give that feedback in private if you wish, assuming you give me a fair price, given that it is a beta. But i will at least cover you for your cost of parts/time. And we can do some deal about not selling out your ideas/design if you wish. You might need to take my word on it though.

I love that kind of stuff.

Off topic a bit...

My 80’s porsche has an aftermarket intake and injectors with a performance chip. All designed and tuned by a retired ibm computer engineer. He made the product in his garage. He used off the shelf modern maf and injectors, but he sorted it all out to play with the engine. he reverse engineered the bosh motronics code in his spare time in the evenings. Now a 40 year old car can play with modern tech. But at first, i was a very polite, but a very skeptical critic. I asked a lot of questions. But i also listened.

When getting ready to rebuild my engine, i did some research, some math, talked to some people smarter than me... learned a lot, and pieced together a custom engine setup. I am not an engineer, mechanic, or anything like that. I even designed my own tuned headers based on helmholtz resonence theory so the exhaust would be tuned in conjunction with the intake tuning (something porsche never did, presumably due to packaging and emmisions issues that limited them in the 80’s. ).

My setup ended up including this guys parts.. i was his largest skeptic until we spoke about the details/strengths of his design. We talked on the phone. He was a really smart guy.

My car makes more hp and mid ranged torque than any stock or aftermarket 911 of the era (that i know of, on pump gas). Power was increased by almost 50% without boost or higher octaine fuel, or adding more displacement, or even increasing stock rpm. Just engineering and parts upgrades in a smart way that was synergistic to performance at the power bands i chose to target. Volumetric efficiency of the engine increased from an impressive 106% to near 150%. In the 80’s porsche got an engine of the year award, because no-one believed a production car could be made that efficient without boost. In those days, 85% was pretty good.

And it may be that way for a while, because i co-designed a muffler with a different guy that hand makes 911 mufflers in the uk. we agreed to secrecy on the design. So it is the only one.

His design was secret, but he showed me the internals because i had studied a lot of designs made to date, and found nothing that matched my needs. We chatted muffler and header design for some time. I am sure i was not his typical porsche customer. i had him change it a bit to my desired needs/design. Max hp while still muffling sound to a respectable level at low rpm, no drone (none of the aftermarket dual tip 911 exhausts have zero resonance... which howls at 3000rpm or so), and no loss of midrange torque (a downside of exhausts that are too free flowing). It was the holy grail of usable performance mufflers for that engine.

Me and this maf/injectors/chip guy still talk on the phone about engine design now and then. Great guy. Random people contact me to get advice on air cooled engine design/upgrades. And this product was made and designed in his garage, in his spare time, using great quality, but reasonably priced parts. And it worked damn well. And i had no education in cars prior to 2014. I just read, listen when smart people talk, and learn.

So i am quite excited for this hose, and will be the first customer to buy your pump, if you wish to sell me one. I love this kind of stuff.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:44 am
by MrMagura
Sorry, but no intentions to make a pump production, I only entertained the idea of making a pump, as I needed a proper pump for my own use.

The hose looks real fancy, leaving it on your desk will make it a conversation piece.
You can bend it with a bit of force, but the torsional stiffness is 100%, so don't bother with using it for a pump.

As for your car, 80's Porsche is a wide term, as that's where they went from proper Porsche, to water cooled and full of electronic junk?

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 1:50 am
by RocketRacing
MrMagura wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:09 am
I in fact started out explaining what was causing the issues with their design, to which they responded by trying to convince me that it was a matter of user error.....and that's where I drew the line.
You and me are not so different. I just solve different problems, and give advice of a different type.

We both made something better because there was nothing as good as we wanted in our heads. That was the point of my long car story (and yeah, i am proud of what i designed).

I also now understand why you still use the silca pump (i would have turfed it, or got a refund). It was flawed, you fixed it, likely even made it better. Not anyone can do that. That is something to be proud of.

That is why i will be your first customer. Serious.

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:05 am
by RocketRacing
MrMagura wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:44 am
Sorry, but no intentions to make a pump production, I only entertained the idea of making a pump, as I needed a proper pump for my own use.

The hose looks real fancy, leaving it on your desk will make it a conversation piece.
You can bend it with a bit of force, but the torsional stiffness is 100%, so don't bother with using it for a pump.

As for your car, 80's Porsche is a wide term, as that's where they went from proper Porsche, to water cooled and full of electronic junk?
If you change your mind on the pump, you know where to find me. I will pm you my email about the hose. I love conversation pieces.

My porsche is an 84 911. First year of bosch motronics. Still air cooled. Like a horny mortocycle as a friend once said. They went to water in 96 or 97, at least for the 911. They did water for other models in the 80’s... but they are not real “porsches” in my mind, so i am foggy/uninterested in those details. Porsche = Air cooled, engine in the back! Mind you, the modern gt3 rs is pretty nice...

The first water cooled 911’s wer co-designed (watered down!!!) with... Toyota as advisors. Toyota was doing what you do as a job, but for porsche... and all advice was about cost savings and mass production. Porsche was in financial straits in the late 90’s, partly because the cars will still made by elderly german men/women by hand, and they could just not compete with the cost efficiencies of modernized mass production factories. So the water cooled, mass produced, visually diluted, 996 generation of 911 was born. Yawn...

As far as electric junk, in hot rodding my car, i also stripped it of about 500lbs of “junk” in persuit of simplicity and lightness/performance (while still preserving visual hotness to my taste, inside and out, and inproving balance). I live in canada, and the ac compressor system was in the heavy end of the car, and had no function in making my car lighter, more powerful, or faster... so i removed and sold it. Stereo, removed it. Rear seats, gone, etc.

It was a labour of love, and on the track it tears most modern new 911’s a new you-know-what. Very satisfying. It is a modern day stripped out gt3 rs, if they made a gt3 rs in the 80’s. Although it tries to kill me every time i drive it... it is an animal. It puts more hair on my chest every time i drive it.

The drivers seat is custom made to fit my skinny butt (i had a big part in the design, which was one off custom), and is fixed mounted... for my ideal position. It is also my baby. And it sits next to my bikes and pump (thus why i don’t like the idea of a metal pump hose. When tired, i can be clumsy)

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:32 am
by coresare
Your pumps aren't the only thing you guys are stroking. Jk. Sorta

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:49 am
by wheelbuilder
coresare wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:32 am
Your pumps aren't the only thing you guys are stroking. Jk. Sorta
PURE GOLD!!!!

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 7:57 am
by RocketRacing
wheelbuilder wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:49 am
coresare wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:32 am
Your pumps aren't the only thing you guys are stroking. Jk. Sorta
PURE GOLD!!!!
Hey, wasn’t the internet invented in the 80’s to allow grown adults to flex and brag?

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 8:39 am
by coresare
:D

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 8:39 am
by Weenie

Re: Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:36 pm
by MrMagura
RocketRacing wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:50 am
MrMagura wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:09 am
I in fact started out explaining what was causing the issues with their design, to which they responded by trying to convince me that it was a matter of user error.....and that's where I drew the line.
You and me are not so different. I just solve different problems, and give advice of a different type.

We both made something better because there was nothing as good as we wanted in our heads. That was the point of my long car story (and yeah, i am proud of what i designed).

I also now understand why you still use the silca pump (i would have turfed it, or got a refund). It was flawed, you fixed it, likely even made it better. Not anyone can do that. That is something to be proud of.

That is why i will be your first customer. Serious.
Well, in your case nobody promised more than what you got, makes for quite a difference.
Also you did something that you knew from the get go, was going to be a development project.
With Silca, they promised and indeed charged for something I wanted, so it seemed like an easy solution, but delivered a polished turd.
I basicly brought said polished turd up the the promised specs. :-D

I still use part of the Silca pump, cause it was marginally easier to do so, and probably also faster, than building a pump from scratch.
It was a tradeoff.
Basing a pump on the polished turd from Silca, saved me making a foot and a handle (ok, I still had to make proper finish on the handle, but it was a matter of 15 minutes), in exchange for making a proper piston and modifying the dock.
Also by doing so, I didn't have to wait 24 hours for the parts.

Besides that, do you think I'd get a refund without another debate, when they have put that much effort into claiming user error and high standards? :-D