Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

You can't just put a spacer below the magnet, as it's mounted from the bottom side. It requires some machining.
I'm also going to get rid of the hose, as it's really unsuitable for the purpose.
I pointed this out over email. The answer "but they use it as brake hose in Formula 1".
Like that made it the least bit suitable for use as a pump hose. :roll:
This, plus a couple of other modifications, and it will probably become reasonably userfriendly and working.

I agree that solving the issues is no problem, this is not the point.
It's rather a matter of if Silca should live up to their marketing claims or not.
I think we can all agree upon the answer to that question?
We can probably also agree, that serving the cutomer a banquet of BS over email, instead of getting things sorted, is not one of the options?

I'm already sorting this out, and expect to have a working pump by tomorrow, in spite of Silca.

by Weenie


MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

joshatsilca wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:09 am


As for the stickiness at the top, our mtn bike suspension fork piston is only 12mm thick and we use a single bump stop ring at the top. Most pumps use a 30mm thick plastic piston + bump stop, so what you are seeing/feeling is just the effects of tiny misalignments at the top of the stroke. This can be solved with additional bump stop which takes up stroke, but will keep the piston from moving beyond the point where it can misalign to the point of getting sticky.. the tradeoff is a little bit of stick for an extra 20mm of stroke or vice versa. Easy to solve and we can certainly send you some bump rings if you like.

Best
J
This is simply not true!

The added friction at the top, is due to huge tolerances of the piston (yes Josh, I have measured it, now that I had to take mine apart to make it work anyway).
The piston is 29.2mm, the bore is 30mm.
When the piston and the end cap bearings are getting close enough, the piston rod can get an angle off axis, due to the huge play between the piston and the bore. That results in the bearings riding on the corner instead of the bearing surface, and well, there you have it.

This is also on my list of issues that will be sorted, without making the stroke shorter, but by simply making a piston ring that actually has reasonable tolerances.

coresare
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:19 am

by coresare

Mr. Portner, thanks interesting info on the gauges! Looking forward to seeing the replacement.

Did you have a chance to see the video of me trying to dock the presta chuck and if that's normal.

RocketRacing
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I think the bump stop vs piston tolerances is describing the same thing. Based on what i am reading.

Sounds like someone should also take a bit of responsability and have done their homework and got the digital. The hose design is more appropriate to your needs/expectations from the sound of it.

I would say, you bought a 450$ pump without first trying it? But i know that it is not possible for everyone (including me).

Regarding marketing hype and living up to it, i think one must remember that the hose/pump was designed for accomidating track pressures. To do that requires an appropriate hose. I am assuming a hose used for f1 brake lines is going to be quite bulletproof, even if overbuilt for the needs of us mortals. And that might be a selling point also, but to get that level of strength, flexability is hurt.

Lets face it, using a silca superpista ultimate pump to pump your tires is like driving a racecar to work.

For my needs (max psi is 65 cause i am light), the super pista is overbuilt. Iike my old racecar... top level everything, really fast, really expensive... but man it was loud, and bumpy as heck on anything other than a flat track surface. Oh yeah, and getting in took two people (ideally). And i needed special fuel. It would make for a terrible (illegal) daily driver. But man oh man was it awesome and fast on the track, and worth it.

But you don’t get into a racecar and then complain that it is loud, stiff, and that the window nets prevent you from adjusting your door mirrors. Because if you could do all that, it would no longer be the right tool for the job.

On silcas end, maybe they got a bad egg (product or customer), or marketing/engineering needs to find an inbetween that is a bit more “daily use” friendly. Like a bmw m3 or porsche 911. Performance, and ease of use/comfort, without the itallian ferarri/race car quirks.

It sounds like the pump in question had some quirks that were too much for at least the one buyer. Even if it can do 0-60 in under 3s.

Might i suggest the silca digital...

I know i am getting off topic, and this goes to josh... but it is just like high end cars. Everyone wants the race car. They will pay big $$$ for it. But then they hate the race car because of the impracticalities, even if it a better tool for the job... when used within it’s design limits.

My dogma, is that the higher performance something is, the narrower it’s range of use becomes. Weight weenies get it. My super light carbon post and saddle is not for everyone. The wrong rider sits on it... and if flexes... possibly brakes. Just like an overbuilt pump hose flexes less. That reduced flex will drive some people nuts. Others will see the utility, and accept the tradeoff. Others will just love that f1 uses it also.

So although people want a race car, they actually need (can only handle) a luxury cruiser. So the trick is to give them a sporty luxury car. Race car speed, leather couch luxury and ease of use. They want to feel like they own a race car, without the inconveniances that come with it.

Just don’t take it to the track and expect race car performance. But car brands are getting much better at it... at a cost.
Last edited by RocketRacing on Fri May 10, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:18 pm
I think the bump stop vs piston tolerances is describing the same thing. Based on what i am reading.

Sounds like someone should also take a bit of responsability and have done their homework and got the digital. The hose design is more appropriate to your needs/expectations from the sound of it.

I would say, you bought a 450$ pump without first trying it? But i know that it is not possible for everyone (including me).

Regarding marketing hype and living up to it, i think one must remember that the hose/pump was designed for accomidating track pressures. To do that requires an appropriate hose. I am assuming a hose used for f1 brake lines is going to be quite bulletproof, even if overbuilt for the needs of us mortals. And that might be a selling point also, but to get that level of strength, flexability is hurt.

Lets face it, using a silca superpista ultimate pump to pump your tires is like driving a racecar to work.

For my needs (max psi is 65 cause i am light), the super pista is overbuilt. Iike my old racecar... top level everything, really fast, really expensive... but man it was loud, and bumpy as heck on anything other than a flat track surface. Oh yeah, and getting in took two people (ideally). And i needed special fuel. It made for a terrible (illegal) daily driver. But man oh man was it awesome and fast on the track, and worth it.

But you don’t get into a racecar and then complain that it is loud, stuff, and that the window nets prevent you from adjusting your door mirrors. Because if you could do all that, it would no longer be the right tool for the job.

On silcas end, maybe they got a bad egg (product or customer), or marketing/engineering needs to find an inbetween that is a bit more “daily use” friendly. Like a bmw m3 or porsche 911. Performance, and ease of use/comfort, without the itallian ferarri/race car quirks.

Might i suggest the silca digital...
The SuperPista Ultimate has nothing to do with track pressures. The manometer goes to 160psi max, and the piston diameter is 30mm, so even if the manometer did go higher, you'd get blue in the face before you'd reach 250psi.
So that ridiculous brake hose has no purpose.

I did read any info Silca published, and was sadly dumb enough to believe them.
This has nothing to do with your analogy to a race car. It's plain and simple a poorly designed product, and poor quality control, in holy unification!
I'm all for marginal gains through specializing, but so far I fail to spot the gains of an unsuitable hose, and a docking system that is somewhere between cumbersome to deal with, and simply not working at all.
When someone claims 18 month of top level race testing, and 100% end quality control, and charges accordingly, I think most people would feel screwed over if they receive a polished turd.

As for the difference between sacrificing stroke as a work around for making proper quality, and making pistons with proper tolerances, no, that's in no way the same.
The first is how a $25 pump from Walmart is made, the second is how a $450 quality product ought to be made.

kode54
Posts: 1608
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

I had two issues with the original SuperPista Ultimate. One was the gauge. This was addressed and a new one was sent to me which I replaced and the gauge is accurate again from the day I first received mine. Then, I had a leak towards the bottom by the gauge and hose. I thought it was initially the gauge which I replaced...but spoke to Silca customer support. They quickly identified the issue as being the hose. I wasn't quite certain that this was the issue, but I waited to receive the hose to replace and then reassess the issue. Sure enough, it was the hose fitting or something near the entry by the gauge. Everything was replaced and sent to me as part of their warranty that Silca honored. Their customer service has always been great with everything Silca that I own.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:42 pm
So that ridiculous brake hose has no purpose.
It's not uncommon, in many industries, to wildly overspec materials/components *just* so the marketing department has got something to use and the customer gets bragging rights.

Unfortunately, it usually makes no material difference to the function (or in some cases, makes it worse.)

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

mattr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:35 pm
MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:42 pm
So that ridiculous brake hose has no purpose.
It's not uncommon, in many industries, to wildly overspec materials/components *just* so the marketing department has got something to use and the customer gets bragging rights.

Unfortunately, it usually makes no material difference to the function (or in some cases, makes it worse.)

Yeah, that's often so, but for a product that's peddled as high end throughout tested, and so forth, it's bordering on retarded to do it, especially when it makes the function that much poorer.

Anyhow, some machining, a new piston ring that actually fits the bore, and a suitable hose that does 200psi, I actually now have a working pump, that doesn't bind in the top end of the stroke, isn't a pain to deal with, and a magnetic dock that in fact works.

All that's left is now to remove the sharp edges on the handle, and it's beginning to resemble a $450 pump :mrgreen:

Sock3t
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

$450 pump and they don't make the tube long enough to use the magnet for the chuck to rest in.

Unbelieveable. lmao, I'll stick with my $8 Bell pump. What a joke

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

Trust me, I don't feel like the brightest bulb on the christmas tree, for believing in Silca :unbelievable:

RocketRacing
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:42 pm
mattr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:35 pm

Yeah, that's often so, but for a product that's peddled as high end throughout tested, and so forth, it's bordering on retarded to do it, especially when it makes the function that much poorer.

Anyhow, some machining, a new piston ring that actually fits the bore, and a suitable hose that does 200psi, I actually now have a working pump, that doesn't bind in the top end of the stroke, isn't a pain to deal with, and a magnetic dock that in fact works.

All that's left is now to remove the sharp edges on the handle, and it's beginning to resemble a $450 pump :mrgreen:
Hahah. Fair enough. Maybe you got a dog. If i understand your response, you declined a parts replacement, did your own fix, and I think your warranty is now solidly void.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:18 pm


Hahah. Fair enough. Maybe you got a dog. If i understand your response, you declined a parts replacement, did your own fix, and I think your warranty is now solidly void.
Yeah, I simply gave up debating with them if I was too dumb to use their extremely well tested and high quality pump.
Given that they couldn't even deliver a working product in the first place, and customer service was nothing but a runaround, till I told them to stick it, loosing the warranty doesn't concern me too much. :mrgreen:

They wanted to give me a hose, after I had explained several times that that it first of all wouldn't fix the issue (tolerance or generation issue), and kept trying to convince me that it was a user error.
At some point you have to just get things sorted, and debating with Silca was leading nowhere.
I had a look at things, and figured that fixing all the issues, would take about an hour and a half, which is less than I had already wasted debating with Silca, so seems like a sensible solution.

As I wrote earlier, this is not really a matter of money, but rather that they managed to screw me over, and that hurts my pride.

I needed a pump pretty bad, as I am responsible for some 30 race bikes, my Lezyne had given up the ghost, and I have given my backup pump to a friend who lives some 1200km away.
Now I have a pump that actually works, and I learned a bitter lesson.

talltales
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

"I am responsible for some 30 race bikes,"

Pro tip. Compressor ...

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

talltales wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:58 pm
"I am responsible for some 30 race bikes,"

Pro tip. Compressor ...
To be honest, too much trouble to drag around, searching for mains power, and so forth.
I have one, but it practically never gets used.
A proper pump is just fine. I've been using the SKS Renkompressor for ages, but can't see the dial anymore

by Weenie


coresare
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:19 am

by coresare

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't a cheap hose that expanded with pressure and Silca's super hose have no effect on accuracy? The cheap hose might take an insignificant more pumping since the hose will create more volume, but I don't see how that will make the pump more accurate.

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