Cable/Housing combo? Jagwire Pro, Shimano Dura Ace... something else?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Stendhal
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by Stendhal

RocketRacing wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:24 am
A useful thread:

Bungarus are crap apparently.

viewtopic.php?t=135655#p1177196
Hi Rocket, I remember that thread. I think the Aican cabling that RyanH criticized has changed in production. It does not use plastic connectors between the links, at least not in the version I purchased on eBay last year that has been working fine at a low weight. So I would recommend Aidan, with this caveat: I am riding eTap and hence I have tested only the brake cabling, not derailleurs.
Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (6.39 kg), Cervelo Aspero (7.87)
Retired: LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10 \ F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2, R3, R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

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MayhemSWE
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by MayhemSWE

hlvd wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:47 pm
Has anybody used these by Bontrager?

https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/equi ... Code=black
That is almost definitely just a rebranded Jagwire Elite Link kit.

by Weenie


RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

I think i remember why i threw my hands in the air on this subject (and i am only talking brake housing). It is jagwire and the nonsensical housing names and nonsense...

1. Elite linc: is light, but uses CGX-SL housing for the under the tape parts (specced in their lower sport tier of cables). This is coiled steel, but presumably lighter than CGX. Jagwire lists this as their mid grade housing, noting that it will suffer from some compression.

2. Elite sealed: uses CGX housing. Coiled steel. I presume it is bulletproof, cause it is heavy. The only other kit that uses this is their entry level “sport xl” option.

For shits and giggles, jagwire lists CGX housing as their 3rd tier “basic housing”. “Quality, low-cost brake housing using coiled steel wrapped around an inner non-lubed liner. The combination of low cost and long-lasting performance makes it ideal for entry-level bike service.”

3. pro: uses KEB-SL. This is linear steel wrapped in kevlar. Jagwire states it is 30% lighter... and compressionless. Jag lists this as their top end housing. who knows if this is actually lighter than CGX-SL.

4. Sport: uses CGX-SL, the mid grade housing just like the elite linc kit.

5. Sport-XL: uses the same CGX housing as the elite sealed cables.

What a confusing mess.

So in summary, jag’s has three tiers of cables.
- top end linc kits use mid grade sealed cables for under the bar tape. Wtf?!? Why?
- The “elite” sealed use their bargain bin cables (brilliant marketing on their part. “ hey, how do we sell these $h!t housings? I know... lets call them ELITE and sell them for more!!!”)
- the pro level use their lightest sealed cables, and seems to be the best choice imho.
- Their cheapest sport and sport-xl use mide grade, and bargain bin grade housing. A reminder that their top two models also use mid grade and bargain-bin level housing.

Is jagwire mental????

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MayhemSWE
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by MayhemSWE

RocketRacing wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:16 am
Is jagwire mental????
You almost make it sound like a conspiracy, but no, I believe there are good reasons behind these choices.

Yes KEB-SL is the lightest brake housing and compressionless to boot, but this also makes it super stiff and cumbersome to route along the bar bend. Because of this the Pro wiring kits include Jagwire's EZ-Bend segments to use from the levers and around the bend before switching to the KEB-SL housing.

This is of course why the Elite Link kits do not ship with KEB-SL housing. Switching between three different forms of housing (EZ-Bend, KEB-SL, Links) along the bars would be kind of silly, not to mention potentially increase friction with all of the additional transitions and ferrules. Hence only CGX-SL instead.

Finally the Elite Sealed kits do not use low-end CGX housing but their own unique type called CSX. This housing has a larger inner diameter in order to fit a continious liner all along the wire from lever to caliper, which is the whole selling point of these particular kits.

ND4SPD
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by ND4SPD

What about Nokon?

https://www.carlstahl-technocables.de/p ... ystem.html

https://www.bike24.com/p227618.html

I know it's "link type", I also don't like that...

RocketRacing
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by RocketRacing

Maybem... yup you are correct. Thanks. It makes more sense now.

CGX vs CSX.

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StanK
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by StanK

If CGX is low-end, what to say about CEX?
I have it now on my bike, but hopefully only 'till tomorrow. Can't wait to see what scale says comparing to KEB-SL.

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StanK
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by StanK

CEX brake housing - 56g/m. In short, not terribly heavier than KEB-SL, I thought it would weight more, because is below "low level".
SP41 (Shimano) shift housing (was on bike) - 35g/m. In short, not too heavy, I thought it is heavyer.

So, all in all, with Pro Jagwire now set on a bicycle, difference was 20-25g. I thought it would be around 40g.
Weight of cables was obviously around the same but I don't even know what was on my bike.
Btw. KEB-SL is really stiff, so I do not like it very much. CEX is heavier, but it is better for routing.

There were some other interesting suggestions around here. Maybe for next time.

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StanK
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by StanK

"Next time" would be very soon, I'm afraid.

After few rides I can say that I don't like Jagwire Pro sets. Brake set mostly, to be exact. Shift set is OK, but nothing better than Shimano SP41 housing with some Tiagra/105 range of cables.

KEB-SL is super stiff to a point that pushes handlebar and would be very dangerous to leave it without hands when riding. Which here and there I do on some rides.
Plus, feel of braking (rear brake mostly) is worse that it was with CEX and some cheaper Shimano cables. Yes, I can stop as before, but you have feeling that cable has diffuculting to travel inside housing and that you have some cheap stuff on bike.

So, is there any trustworthy brake housing, not super stiff, sub 40g/m and easily attainable? No link option, as I mentioned before.
Super stiff housing is problem, but for poor brake feeling, cables can be blamed too, I guess. I did do some extra research, but haven't got to any usefull conclusion.
AICAN (A3) looks good on paper... Anyone try it?

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tommasini
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by tommasini

So in another series of posts I was initially a proponent of Jagwire XEX-SL housing for ders (17g/m) and Aican aluminum (longinental) strand w/vinyl covering brake housing (26g/m) from an eBay seller.

The jagwire XEX-SL after awhile started to mildly “herniate” or basically get all sorts of small quirky bends on 2 separate bikes. The performance was still excellent but it concerned me long term so I nicely emailed jagwire 3 times and they blew me off with no reply what so ever. So after that - mostly due to their no reply - I pitched them.

Meanwhile I have been super happy with the Aican for brakes. Low and behold I found there is also an Aican aluminum longitudinal wire version (also vinyl covered) for ders at 21g/m. Bought this and am so glad I did. Both are rock solid for performance and not overly hard to make bends - so running inside bars is fine.

Fast forward - the Aican is rare (eBay) but there is an unbranded equivalent for both (21g and 26g) at Ali express that I truest believe is the same housing. I’m normally a name brand snob...... but this stuff has been more than great.
Last edited by tommasini on Thu May 16, 2019 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mep
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by Mep

tommasini wrote:So in another series of posts I was initially a proponent of Jagwire XEX-SL housing for ders (17g/m) and Aican aluminum (longinental) strand w/vinyl covering brake housing (26g/m) from an eBay seller.

The jagwire after awhile started to “herniate” or basically get all sorts of quirky bends on 2 separate bikes. I nicely emailed jagwire 3 times and they blew me off.

Meanwhile I have been super happy with the Aican for brakes. Low and behold I found there is also an Aican aluminum longitudinal wire version (also vinyl covered) for ders at 21g/m. Bought this and am so glad I did. Both are rock solid for performance and not overly hard to make bends - so running inside bars is fine.

Fast forward - the Aican is rare (eBay) but there is an unbranded equivalent for both (21g and 26g) at Ali express that I truest believe is the same housing. I’m normally a name brand snob...... but this stuff has been more than great.
I run the same setup as you had previously, Jagwire XEX-SL for shifting and Aican for braking. It's only been a month so I can't speak to long term durability yet, but it's been great so far. I have Jagwire XEX-SL and Elite Links on my other bike for almost a year with no issues either. When did your Jagwires start to cause problems?

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StanK
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by StanK

tommasini wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:54 am
... I have been super happy with the Aican for brakes ... rock solid for performance and not overly hard to make bends ...
Sounds very good. Just ... now I see there is A1, then A3 version ...
Do you know what yours is? Thanks.

Mep
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by Mep

26g/m is the A3 i.e. superlight model.

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tommasini
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by tommasini

Here is a link to the Ali stuff. I've seen no difference between it and what I original bought with Aican branding. https://es.aliexpress.com/item/Superlig ... 63c0V2XiMw

Again - I'm definitly a name brand snob but in this particular case this housing has greatly impressed me.

The XEX-SL started to look a bit funny after half a season of use - nothing major but it was noticeable. My bigger concern was Jagwire not responding to my inquires and since I was switching handlebars I decided nows the time to try different cables....so I cant say the the little wiggles in the XEX-SL was actually any problem.
Last edited by tommasini on Sat May 18, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JoO
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by JoO

Has anyone tried the stuff from capgo?
http://capgo.de/en/wires_6/

by Weenie


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