Any real world experience with Sram AXS?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
spdntrxi
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

ah... guys. 33/33 vs 34/32 is not a make or break difference.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

dorin wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:46 am
moyboy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 pm
used compact 50-34 with 11-32 on the rear for climbs. Now have a 46-33 with 10-33. 1:1 just in case and for gravel to
How does the 46-33/10-33 feel compared to 50-34/11-32, is any noticeable difference when in 33-33 compared to 34-32? Did you have a chance to try it?
This is the main reason I am considering axs, to make life easier when climbing...
Cheers
Of course there’s a noticeable difference. It allows you to jump from 80rpm to 85rpm at the same power. Think about it in the simplest terms, 1:1 easiest gear with a normal compact double means running a 34t large sprocket...It’s a 6.25% jump.

spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:52 am
ah... guys. 33/33 vs 34/32 is not a make or break difference.

And yet I feel the missing 2t going from 11-32t down to 11-30t for races.

dorin
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

Having one extra gear 34/30 compared to 34/32 was very welcoming, I’m talking abt climbing for 5-6hrs in one go. I can live with the weight penalty if the gear is better (easier), the noise I can ignore. DA has (IMO) more comfortable hoods (plus top hood button for computer ctrl) but AXS could be easier, if only I could have a test ride, but is not possible...

spdntrxi
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I guess when you are as slow as me going uphills..... 2t aint making a difference... maybe over a long ride, I'll give you that.

dorin
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:18 am
I guess when you are as slow as me going uphills..... 2t aint making a difference... maybe over a long ride, I'll give you that.
Talking abt 3000-4000m climbs here, looong one, and yes, I’m also not the fastest... :oops:

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

It’s more that there’s a hard break point when things get really steep that your legs can’t handle from a pure force/torque standpoint. For me the difference between doing 350W@55rpm and 350W@58rpm is noticeable.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

moyboy
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:19 am

by moyboy

1:1 is always nice, but in the past you had to get a big spread of gears. With 12 speed you have better 1 tooth jumps from 10 - 15 vs. 11-14 on 11 speed.

It will be easier due to that but i rarely use the 1:1 and will only be a bailout gear for me. On Gravel i might use it more.

dorin wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:46 am
moyboy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 pm
used compact 50-34 with 11-32 on the rear for climbs. Now have a 46-33 with 10-33. 1:1 just in case and for gravel to
How does the 46-33/10-33 feel compared to 50-34/11-32, is any noticeable difference when in 33-33 compared to 34-32? Did you have a chance to try it?
This is the main reason I am considering axs, to make life easier when climbing...
Cheers

jlok
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

No negative usage comment so far??? Any problem found? Like chain drop or bad FD shift etc...
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

dorin
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 pm

by dorin

I decided to go with the he DA9170 and Quarq PM (DA crank is too ugly).
I had a test ride last weekend with a test bike and the cable of the RD jumped, took me while to figure it out, advantage Sram ;)
In the end the esthetics and ergonomics won...
Last edited by dorin on Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gearjunkie
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:17 am
Location: NZ

by Gearjunkie

moyboy wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:57 pm
1:1 is always nice, but in the past you had to get a big spread of gears. With 12 speed you have better 1 tooth jumps from 10 - 15 vs. 11-14 on 11 speed.

It will be easier due to that but i rarely use the 1:1 and will only be a bailout gear for me. On Gravel i might use it more.

dorin wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:46 am
moyboy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 pm
used compact 50-34 with 11-32 on the rear for climbs. Now have a 46-33 with 10-33. 1:1 just in case and for gravel to
How does the 46-33/10-33 feel compared to 50-34/11-32, is any noticeable difference when in 33-33 compared to 34-32? Did you have a chance to try it?
This is the main reason I am considering axs, to make life easier when climbing...
Cheers
Everyone talks about AXS only having 1 tooth gaps that's not quite as good as it seems because what matters is the change in the ratio, front to rear.

The ratio gaps for the 1 tooth gaps on AXS are actually greater than 1 tooth gaps on a non AXS group because one tooth at the rear on AXS is a greater proportion of the smaller front chainrings on AXS. So your legs feel a bigger gap even if it is only 1 tooth.

Same applies as the rear cogs get smaller. So to compare the gap between, say, the 11 and the 10 cogs on AXS you would need to look at the gap between the 12 and the 11 cogs that you would use for for the same speed on a non AXS group. The AXS gap is greater because 1 tooth is a greater proportion of a 10 tooth cog than an 11 tooth cog.

Clear as mud?

akaspin
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm

by akaspin

The most interesting question for me: did anyone tried AXS with aftermarket 2x chainrings?

akaspin
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm

by akaspin

double post
Last edited by akaspin on Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RussellS
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

Gearjunkie wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 am
moyboy wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:57 pm
1:1 is always nice, but in the past you had to get a big spread of gears. With 12 speed you have better 1 tooth jumps from 10 - 15 vs. 11-14 on 11 speed.

It will be easier due to that but i rarely use the 1:1 and will only be a bailout gear for me. On Gravel i might use it more.

dorin wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:46 am
moyboy wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 pm
used compact 50-34 with 11-32 on the rear for climbs. Now have a 46-33 with 10-33. 1:1 just in case and for gravel to
How does the 46-33/10-33 feel compared to 50-34/11-32, is any noticeable difference when in 33-33 compared to 34-32? Did you have a chance to try it?
This is the main reason I am considering axs, to make life easier when climbing...
Cheers
Everyone talks about AXS only having 1 tooth gaps that's not quite as good as it seems because what matters is the change in the ratio, front to rear.

The ratio gaps for the 1 tooth gaps on AXS are actually greater than 1 tooth gaps on a non AXS group because one tooth at the rear on AXS is a greater proportion of the smaller front chainrings on AXS. So your legs feel a bigger gap even if it is only 1 tooth.

Same applies as the rear cogs get smaller. So to compare the gap between, say, the 11 and the 10 cogs on AXS you would need to look at the gap between the 12 and the 11 cogs that you would use for for the same speed on a non AXS group. The AXS gap is greater because 1 tooth is a greater proportion of a 10 tooth cog than an 11 tooth cog.

Clear as mud?
Yes, what you are saying is mathematically correct. Just like saying a shift occurs in .10 seconds compared to .11 seconds. The first shift is 10%!!!!!!!!!!!!! faster. Would you notice it? NO. Despite what all of the world class professional cyclists on this forum might claim.

For fun, lets compare the SRAM Red 11 speed 50-34 and 11-32 to the SRAM AXS 12 speed 46-33 and 10-33.
High gear: 50x11=120.5 gear inches. 46x10=121.9 gear inches. With 700C wheels and 90 rpm, 32.2 and 32.6 mph. No difference in reality.
Low gear: 34x32=28.2 gear inches. 33x33=26.5 gear inches. 7.5 and 7.1 mph. Maybe once a year or decade could you really feel the difference. But in reality its a very small difference.
Changes between cogs: The 11-32 eleven speed. Cogs are 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. Using 34 tooth small chainring. Gear inch jumps between cogs while shifting from 11 to 32 are: 6.8-5.8-5.0-4.3-7.1-5.6-6.5-4.9-3.9-4.0. All are fairly small and sort of uniform, the same. Except the 15-17 shift with 7.1 and the 19-22 shift with 6.5. The 10-33 twelve speed. Cogs are 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-33. Using 33 tooth smallchainring. Gear inch jumps between cogs while shifting from 10 to 33 are: 7.9-6.6-5.6-4.8-4.2-6.9-5.4-4.4-5.2-5.2-4.7. Again, all are fairly small and sort of uniform, the same. Except the one 15-17 shift with 6.9. So by going with twelve speeds and reworking the rear cogs, AXS has reduced the bad jump shifts on the rear by one. Yeah.

In reality there is not much difference going from 11 to 12 cassettes with SRAM. Other than eliminating the extra bad shift on the rear cassette with eleven speed. You can get the exact same gears with both systems. You can have almost exactly the same shifting jumps between gears with both systems. Despite what the professionals on this forum claim, you cannot tell the difference of one gear inch in shifts. Or maybe if you can feel it slightly, you will soon forget about it and not notice it after riding for 15 seconds.

If you have eleven speed and are happy with it, there is no logical reason to switch to twelve speed. Unless you just want to brag and show up your riding partners. You can tell them you are cool and stylish because you have twelve speed. And they are old outdated has beens because they have eleven speed. HaHa. Now if you are going to buy a new bike this year no matter what, then definitely look at twelve speed. Or better yet wait until Shimano comes out with twelve speed then you can get quality components. Or go with Campagnolo electronic twelve.

bikesrdangerousmmk
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:54 am

by bikesrdangerousmmk

I got the 48/35 and 10-28, coming over from a 53/39 and 11-28 (with 25mm as measured tires). I did not need the 53 most of the time but could wind up the 53x11 pretty fast for a decent duration. Had been planning on getting 52/36 and 11-28 on new bike but got a deal on axs. I was concerned about the 11 to 10 jump being too stiff since I had previously finished most sprints in the 53x11, but I haven’t actually “noticed” the jump while riding. Measured tire width on my axs bike is about 31.5-32 mm

User avatar
wheelbuilder
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

I've installed five of these, and have done extensive test rides on them. While I don't own it personally as I am on 11 spd ETAP and am quite happy with it, I have some observations that might be helpful. First and foremost, the front derailleur shifting is VASTLY improved over 11 speed. It is very very close to (set and forget)........... Top of tallest tooth within box, hash marks lined up with outer ring, and set limits. The limit screws are more responsive and have a greater effect than 11 spd. The front derailleur trims which is pretty awesome, it is faster shifting from inner to outer, but slower shifting from outer to inner, as the downshift is now accomplished with 2 distinct movements. It moves inward about a half-shift and starts the chain derailing but not to the point of dropping down. It pauses there for a split second, then completes the shift with another half shift. This causes the chain to gently drop to the inner. Dropped chains to the inside seem to me to be completely eliminated. The last one I did, I set the low limit super far inboard.......like 5mm too far in just to see if the chain would drop inside. I test rode it around a city block doing nothing but shifting the front over and over with a lot of those shifts going from big/big to small big. I believe that this "soft drop" function of the front derailleur is preventing inside chain drops. Rough roads might have been a different story and nobody rides around with their limit that far off, but it was really impressive. Outside chain drops are still kind of a thing, but that is a simple limit clearance adjustment. Look, full disclosure.........I like many other experienced mechanics in my area have struggled with etap 11 spd front shifting. I struggle with it on my own bike where I can experiment almost endlessly. It was so sensitive to chain stay length, braze on tab positioning, seat tube size and shape, etc. It simply was not easy to set up and dropped chains, and laggy upshifting was common. The jury is still out I imagine, but imo the front derailleur now shifts perfectly on a variety of bikes.
The rear shifting on the other hand now seems fussy whereas the rear shifting on 11 spd was pretty damn perfect. It is louder, albeit faster, and is very sensitive to B-limit distance. The narrow spacing between cogs requires quite a bit of fussing with the micro-adjustment to get it perfectly aligned with each cog, and will be noisy until you really spend some time perfecting it. So.......imo the whole shifting experience while riding is very, very good. Better than 11 spd, but paying attention during set-up (rear) is vital in a way that just isn't required with Di2 or mechanical set-ups.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

by Weenie


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