specialized road bikes - venge vs tarmac

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
pk1
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:05 am

by pk1

Jugi wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 pm
packetloss wrote:For climbing, the Venge is horrible. It's not the bike weight difference or even the ever so slightly harsher ride of the Venge, it's that it just feels slugish, like you are fighting the bike when climbing.
After all the praise surrounding the Venge, that's a bit surprising to read. Could some of that difference be accounted by wheel choice?
it goes to show you can't believe everything you read in reviews. i'm hearing this same message a lot . it seems that while the new venge is a vast improvement on the previous in this regard (probably the best all-rounder of aero bikes) its still an aero bike, not an all-rounder.

i think it is partly the wheels but also the frame seems to lose the springiness that makes climbing out of the saddle work.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lighter bikes like the Tarmac and Emonda are generally stiffer laterally, not springier. Also as someone who spends maybe 3 minutes out of the saddle on a 3 hour ride, I do not use out of the saddle feel as criteria for my frame choice.

by Weenie


sethjs
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

I ride an SWorks Venge w/ CLX 50s. And now renting an SL6 in Majorca. In all cases lots of climbing (SF for the Venge).

I totally disagree on climbing with the bike. I used to ride an RCA. Bunch of other bikes. Can't say that the Venge feels any different climbing than the Tarmac I've been riding this week.

The Venge to me is quite comfortable. I'm on tubeless riding 70F/80R psi. So that's probably a big part of it.

I'd say the Tarmac is more comfortable - but not by a mile.

Handling feels similar. And I can't tell the weight diff on the climbs at all.

ichobi
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Wheel choice total system weight have a lot to do with perceived springiness of the bike. My bike is 6.5kg sl6 ultralight with clx 32 wheel. It feels a lot more lively and springier than the Venge I tested with roval clx 64 wheels. The Venge probably weights 7ish kgs. That 600g difference is very much noticeable on the climb.

packetloss
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:29 pm

by packetloss

Jugi wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 pm
packetloss wrote:For climbing, the Venge is horrible. It's not the bike weight difference or even the ever so slightly harsher ride of the Venge, it's that it just feels slugish, like you are fighting the bike when climbing.
After all the praise surrounding the Venge, that's a bit surprising to read. Could some of that difference be accounted by wheel choice?
No. I have used the same wheels on both bikes. I have both 404s and 202s. While obviously I like the 202s much better for climbing, climbing on the Venge with 202s still feels worse than climbing on the Tarmac with 404s.

I suspect it might be because the Venge is too stiff. I ride a 52, perhaps it's not as pronounced in larger frames. If you are interested in the Venge, I would caution you to take one out for a test ride with some climbing.

packetloss
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:29 pm

by packetloss

sethjs wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:05 pm
I totally disagree on climbing with the bike. I used to ride an RCA. Bunch of other bikes. Can't say that the Venge feels any different climbing than the Tarmac I've been riding this week.
What size frame do you ride?

I do agree that while the Tarmac is slightly more comfortable than the Venge but I never found the Venge uncomfortable. I did many 100+ mile rides on the Venge with no comfort issues.

Barking
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:14 pm

by Barking

PK1, did you come to a decision? Fascinated to know which way this went. I built up an S-Works SL6 disc Sagan over winter after debating the S-Works venge

pk1
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:05 am

by pk1

Barking wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:10 pm
PK1, did you come to a decision? Fascinated to know which way this went. I built up an S-Works SL6 disc Sagan over winter after debating the S-Works venge
not yet, i'm trying to find a way to get a test ride but it doesn't look like that will be possible for the venge. might end up testing an S5 to at least get some idea what the latest aero frames are like.

what made you decide on the SL6?

Barking
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:14 pm

by Barking

I broke my neck last year which has left me with neck and back pain. I found the aero bikes just a little too stiff and uncompromising and the Tarmac really is very comfortable. I had a Supersix Evo before that and I found that comfortable for 3-4 hr rides but the Tarmac is much more comfortable than the Supersix, plus it is quick, an easy bike to ride fast. Ultimately they're all good bikes but the Tarmac really works for me and it looks great in the sparkly Sagan paint! I went for a 56 with a 110mm stem and it is spot on.

parajba
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: London, United Kingdom

by parajba

My 2 cents.
I am 67kg, 178cm, bought a Venge with CLX50 and GP5000 TL 25mm 80PSI and 75PSI.

This thing climbs like a goat! Seriously, coming from a Cervelo R3 I wasn’t expecting the Venge to climb SO well. Not for an aerobike, for a bike in general. You stand up on the pedals and the thing almost jumps!

robeambro
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

parajba wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:24 pm
My 2 cents.
I am 67kg, 178cm, bought a Venge with CLX50 and GP5000 TL 25mm 80PSI and 75PSI.

This thing climbs like a goat! Seriously, coming from a Cervelo R3 I wasn’t expecting the Venge to climb SO well. Not for an aerobike, for a bike in general. You stand up on the pedals and the thing almost jumps!
Haha I remember we were undecided at the same time. We're also exactly the same weight and the same height (ok I'm cheating, I'm 67.5kg!). I ended up going for the SL6, and you for the Venge. I also opted for GP5000 TL 25mm, now I feel like I should inflate at your same PSI's.
I'm getting it in a couple weeks. :mrgreen:

To be honest I am pretty sure it climbs greatly, I don't see why not.. I think the only downside to the Venge may be a *potential* discomfort over very long distances. But again this will depend greatly on the rider, the roads, the wheels, the tires.. Either way, choosing one or the other is often very much of a potayto potato kind of thing.

parajba
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: London, United Kingdom

by parajba

robeambro wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:53 pm
parajba wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:24 pm
My 2 cents.
I am 67kg, 178cm, bought a Venge with CLX50 and GP5000 TL 25mm 80PSI and 75PSI.

This thing climbs like a goat! Seriously, coming from a Cervelo R3 I wasn’t expecting the Venge to climb SO well. Not for an aerobike, for a bike in general. You stand up on the pedals and the thing almost jumps!
Haha I remember we were undecided at the same time. We're also exactly the same weight and the same height (ok I'm cheating, I'm 67.5kg!). I ended up going for the SL6, and you for the Venge. I also opted for GP5000 TL 25mm, now I feel like I should inflate at your same PSI's.
I'm getting it in a couple weeks. :mrgreen:

To be honest I am pretty sure it climbs greatly, I don't see why not.. I think the only downside to the Venge may be a *potential* discomfort over very long distances. But again this will depend greatly on the rider, the roads, the wheels, the tires.. Either way, choosing one or the other is often very much of a potayto potato kind of thing.
Thanks, I agree they are both excellent choices.
Re comfort, it’s very comfy. Could be down to the wheels though. I did the Amstel Gold granfondo a week ago (240km), and felt very good. But I did a full bike fit before purchasing.

2 weeks should go by fast...! Hope you get it quickly.

Mikedb
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 am

by Mikedb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:26 pm
How tall are you? The difference in weight between the larger sizes is insignificant because the Tarmac’s tubes require more plies toward the center of each tube to retain strength and stiffness.

Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/PSuH8q3EraM?t=260s

His 61cm Tarmac Disc and Venge weigh pretty much exactly the same.
Size 61 here and was thinking about getting a Tarmac or Venge in a few months. Amazing video and I appreciate you posting this.

poppiholla
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:18 pm

by poppiholla

I think that the debate between the Venge and the Tarmac comes down to the rider. I ride a Sl6 S-works and I am planning on buying the SL6 Pro disc. The Venge Pro disc crossed my mind because I am more sprinter kind of guy and not slim fit. I will choose the Sl6 because that bike rides great and suits me fine because of the longer Headtube ( i need less spacers). A Venge is only faster when you slam the stem. I think that a Tarmac with an aerofly and a slammed stem is faster then an Venge with a lot of spacers. So I think that it comes down to position on the bike. Are you willing to sit low on the Venge? Can your body handle that? If so, and the terrain is flat and speed is all you care about, the Venge is the better bike imho. If you want an allround bike with a longer headtube so that you need less spacers, it will look better. Imho a Venge looks good with high wheels but high wheels in the mountains or in flatland with crosswinds is tricky at times. A Tarmac with lower wheels still looks good so a Tarmac is the bike that can do it all in every situation. If I already had a Tarmac Sl6 disc I would buy the Venge disc as well but if I have to choose for my only disc bike, I think the Tarmac is the better overall bike for me.

by Weenie


MMW
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:23 pm

by MMW

poppiholla wrote:I think that the debate between the Venge and the Tarmac comes down to the rider. I ride a Sl6 S-works and I am planning on buying the SL6 Pro disc. The Venge Pro disc crossed my mind because I am more sprinter kind of guy and not slim fit. I will choose the Sl6 because that bike rides great and suits me fine because of the longer Headtube ( i need less spacers). A Venge is only faster when you slam the stem. I think that a Tarmac with an aerofly and a slammed stem is faster then an Venge with a lot of spacers. So I think that it comes down to position on the bike. Are you willing to sit low on the Venge? Can your body handle that? If so, and the terrain is flat and speed is all you care about, the Venge is the better bike imho. If you want an allround bike with a longer headtube so that you need less spacers, it will look better. Imho a Venge looks good with high wheels but high wheels in the mountains or in flatland with crosswinds is tricky at times. A Tarmac with lower wheels still looks good so a Tarmac is the bike that can do it all in every situation. If I already had a Tarmac Sl6 disc I would buy the Venge disc as well but if I have to choose for my only disc bike, I think the Tarmac is the better overall bike for me.
The tarmac and Venge has the same stack-height, because of the needed spacer on the Venge.


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