specialized road bikes - venge vs tarmac

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
pk1
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:05 am

by pk1

Hi

i'm debating this choice (probably sworks models) and keen to hear from anyone with real experience comparing the current models of each as test rides are not really possible here.
venge is obviously lower drag (by some ill defined amount at real speeds) and tarmac is lighter - about 450g believe.
is there really a notable comfort difference?
both are said to handle really well
the venge looks amazing to me.

i ride quite a mixture - road bike training for mtb and long course tri (separate tri bike), fondos, bunch races... mixed terrain.

i'd probably put the aerofly bars on the tarmac anyway or reduce the front wheel depth on the venge, closing the gap between them even further.

thanks in advance

by Weenie


SchallUndRauch
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 pm
Location: East of West

by SchallUndRauch

Check the Tour Aero test thread. Venge is around-10W more aerodynamic @40?km/h, Tarmac has the significantly more compliant = comfortable rear.

Campervan
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:45 pm

by Campervan

I looked at both (and a BMC TMR01). However not the S-works so wheel depth for me is 50mm on the pro disc models. After 500+miles, I find the venge is a dream to ride and find it almost as comfy as my BMC granfondo (however that is on tubeless so running 70psi).
If I want to loose weight, I'll loose 450g from my body. One (vane) reason I went for the Venge is the purple colour, I've had enough of matt black bikes.
BMC Granfondo 02 105
Btwin 540
Specialized Venge Pro Disc

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4179
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

How tall are you? The difference in weight between the larger sizes is insignificant because the Tarmac’s tubes require more plies toward the center of each tube to retain strength and stiffness.

Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/PSuH8q3EraM?t=260s

His 61cm Tarmac Disc and Venge weigh pretty much exactly the same.

TLN
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:26 pm
How tall are you? The difference in weight between the larger sizes is insignificant because the Tarmac’s tubes require more plies toward the center of each tube to retain strength and stiffness.

Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/PSuH8q3EraM?t=260s

His 61cm Tarmac Disc and Venge weigh pretty much exactly the same.
If you ride 61cm you're probably pretty heavy dude already. I'd choose based purely on comfort.

ryanw
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

SL6 on CLX50s and Aerofly II bars. Perfection.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6,650g RIP
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,170g
'19 Cervelo S5 Disc - 7,460g

IG: RhinosWorkshop - Check it out for all my custom builds :thumbup:

:!: Ride Southern Spain Cycling Holidays *£445 for 7 Nights* :!:

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4179
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

TLN wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:42 pm

If you ride 61cm you're probably pretty heavy dude already. I'd choose based purely on comfort.

Just saying that as the sizes increase, the weight savings decrease. It's true of the 58cm, just to a lesser extent. On the flip side, if you ride smaller sizes you will see a larger weight difference between Tarmac and Venge.

Comfortwise, I've actually heard that the large Venges feel more compliant than the large Tarmacs, but that is a sample size of two people's casual observations. I haven't ridden a new Venge, but I know a 54cm Tarmac is just as bone jarring as my Emonda SLR.

Alpine318is
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by Alpine318is

I had an SL4 tarmac before my current 1st gen venge and I think overall the Venge is a better bike. I do ride mostly flat though.
2012 Specialized Venge S-Works
eTap
ENVE 4.5
2013 BMC Granfondo GF01
eTap
ENVE Classics 45
2016 Cervelo P2
Ultegra 6800
ENVE 6.7

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

Look at the pros. A lot of them only ride the tarmac now when they are going uphill.

As for comfort, put some 28's on the super wide Roval wheels and I bet they'll feel the same.

At this point, all the Spesh bikes are converging. Tarmac got more aero, Roubaix got more aero and more tarmac-like, Venge is getting lighter. With disc brakes and big tires, seems to me there isn't really a penalty to push you away from the Venge other than maybe a bit of weight.

TLN
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:21 pm
Just saying that as the sizes increase, the weight savings decrease. It's true of the 58cm, just to a lesser extent. On the flip side, if you ride smaller sizes you will see a larger weight difference between Tarmac and Venge.

Comfortwise, I've actually heard that the large Venges feel more compliant than the large Tarmacs, but that is a sample size of two people's casual observations. I haven't ridden a new Venge, but I know a 54cm Tarmac is just as bone jarring as my Emonda SLR.
I'm not sure about weight, but that seems like a good point. As size goes up, you have to use beefier tubes. On the other hand it also applies to any aero bike as well. But I can easily see bigger weight difference in smaller sizes, rather then 58-61 frames.
I tried several bikes: Allez Sprint, Sworks Tarmac and SystemSix. Don't want to confuse people with my opinion, as I'm a newbie rider.

pk1
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:05 am

by pk1

TLN wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:43 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:21 pm
Just saying that as the sizes increase, the weight savings decrease. It's true of the 58cm, just to a lesser extent. On the flip side, if you ride smaller sizes you will see a larger weight difference between Tarmac and Venge.

Comfortwise, I've actually heard that the large Venges feel more compliant than the large Tarmacs, but that is a sample size of two people's casual observations. I haven't ridden a new Venge, but I know a 54cm Tarmac is just as bone jarring as my Emonda SLR.
I'm not sure about weight, but that seems like a good point. As size goes up, you have to use beefier tubes. On the other hand it also applies to any aero bike as well. But I can easily see bigger weight difference in smaller sizes, rather then 58-61 frames.
I tried several bikes: Allez Sprint, Sworks Tarmac and SystemSix. Don't want to confuse people with my opinion, as I'm a newbie rider.
yes, i have heard that both weight and comfort change between these bikes dependant on size.
the larger the size the more the tarmac needs reinforcement in its long tubes whereas the shaping of the venge tubes works better when longer. that means that the weight difference that is not insignificant on small sizes becomes smaller in absolute terms as well as percentage as the size goes up and is reportedly pretty much equal in a 61.
also, the compliance difference reduces.
i'm a 56 so just above middle size where i imagine there is still some benefit to the tarmac

TLN
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

pk1 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:53 pm
yes, i have heard that both weight and comfort change between these bikes dependant on size.
the larger the size the more the tarmac needs reinforcement in its long tubes whereas the shaping of the venge tubes works better when longer. that means that the weight difference that is not insignificant on small sizes becomes smaller in absolute terms as well as percentage as the size goes up and is reportedly pretty much equal in a 61.
also, the compliance difference reduces.
i'm a 56 so just above middle size where i imagine there is still some benefit to the tarmac
Yeah, while for me: heavy rider, 61cm bikes, flat-Chicago area is no reason to stick with tarmac.

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taodemon
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:04 pm
Location: Massachusetts

by taodemon

I still wanted a bike with rim brakes so I went with the Tarmac. The SL6 is noticeably more comfortable than the SL5 tarmac while at the same time keeping or improving all the qualities I liked about the SL5. I rode the original venge for a few years but only did a short test ride on the ViAS and haven't been on the new venge. The SL6 is a great all around bike if you ride various types of terrain. The newer venges I would only consider if my riding was mostly flat terrain where I wouldn't need to worry about the weight penalty. I'm looking forward to the day when they manage to get all that aero into a bike with none of the weight penalty.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4179
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

pk1 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:53 pm

yes, i have heard that both weight and comfort change between these bikes dependant on size.
the larger the size the more the tarmac needs reinforcement in its long tubes whereas the shaping of the venge tubes works better when longer. that means that the weight difference that is not insignificant on small sizes becomes smaller in absolute terms as well as percentage as the size goes up and is reportedly pretty much equal in a 61.
also, the compliance difference reduces.
i'm a 56 so just above middle size where i imagine there is still some benefit to the tarmac
Exactly this.

The tubes on aero bikes and aluminum alloy bikes are stiffer by virtue of their diameter. While something with smaller diameter tubes like the Tarmac can’t be as aggressively “butted” in the center as the main triangle increases in size, the Venge won’t need as much extra material.

Yes I think the 56cm is still at a point where the weight difference is noticeable on climbs >6%, but only just. It doesn’t help that the Tarmac is heavier than advertised and the Venge is one of the lightest aero bikes around.

by Weenie


parajba
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: London, United Kingdom

by parajba

I have a Venge with CLX50 and 5000TL in 25mm. It is 7.3kg race ready. Super comfy, fast as they come on rolling hills, great acceleration out of the saddle and surprisingly climbs VERY well (coming from a Cervelo R3).
I was also 50-50 split between these two models but the cable integration won it for me.

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