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Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 pm
by Dan Gerous
S6ED wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:57 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:02 am
Dan, what is the height of the Evo's top spacer, measured without including the height of the lip at its front side?
I assume it can be installed directly on top of the headset bearing.

Also, does it rotate with the handlebar/fork or is it fixed on the headtube/frame? Sorry for the naive question :roll:
It's 7.5mm tall I think but it leaves a gap above the frame that is more or less 1mm depending of your headset but yes, it does go straight on top of the headset bearing... well, on top of the headset's preload split ring. And it turns with the bars and fork, it has a little grub screw so once your headset preload is adjusted you align it with the stem and tighten it so it stays straight.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 pm
by Weenie

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Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
by S6ED
Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 pm
S6ED wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:57 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:02 am
Dan, what is the height of the Evo's top spacer, measured without including the height of the lip at its front side?
I assume it can be installed directly on top of the headset bearing.

Also, does it rotate with the handlebar/fork or is it fixed on the headtube/frame? Sorry for the naive question :roll:
It's 7.5mm tall I think but it leaves a gap above the frame that is more or less 1mm depending of your headset but yes, it does go straight on top of the headset bearing... well, on top of the headset's preload split ring. And it turns with the bars and fork, it has a little grub screw so once your headset preload is adjusted you align it with the stem and tighten it so it stays straight.
Thanks! I've been trying to (mentally) figure out whether the Deda Alanera DCR bar/stem combo would work on the new Evo. After studying a number of pictures I've fished in the internet, I think that it might... The disc brake hoses plus Di2 wire, coming from the shifters, could exit through the opening underneath the stem adjacent to the stem's steerer tube hole and then, if they manage the kink, go right down the Evo's head tube opening (the infamous "hole"). This could be done mounting the Deda combo right on top of this plastic top spacer or on the thinner aluminium one that only covers the bearing as used by the EF team. If this solution is indeed feasible, then it looks like it might be one of the cleanest possible. The two holes undeneath the bar near the Garmin mount are to be used with rim brake bikes or in any case for less integration. Bear in mind that in the user's manual, Deda states that the Alanera should be used with a proprietary oval-shaped spacer on its under side, but I think this is for "aerodynamic" reasons and not for reasons related to the functional integrity of the bar/stem combo.

Photo credits: https://www.foromtb.com/threads/manilla ... r.1517432/

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:04 pm
by chrispino
Pistaboy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:05 am
chrispino wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:14 pm
Joined the club after pieceing this one together over the last month or so.
Very much loving it so far.
This looks lovely! What is the stem and bar you are using here?
3T stem and Giant bars

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm
by cjm
rmr40 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:59 pm
105 SS EVO 3 size 54 strip down and rebuild begins.

Coming from a SS EVO 2 hi mod I was bit shocked at the frame & fork weight!

Complete bike out the box: 8.8kg.
Frame including BB and hanger: 1115g
Fork uncut: 475g

this needs to go on a serious diet...target weight is 6.8kg with etap 11s, sisl2 and farsports 35mm feders.

Image

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have any photos of the frame headtube and the internals, is the fork steerer open to the cables?

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:01 pm
by bet1216
cjm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Do you have any photos of the frame headtube and the internals, is the fork steerer open to the cables?
The fork steerer tube is not open to cables. The cables go in the "front" partitioned section of the head tube (in front of the steerer/fork) then snake back into the frame. The area is the gap that people talk about and the hole in the spacers/cap. Frame is getting painted currently, otherwise I would post a picture.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 pm
by S6ED
bet1216 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:01 pm
cjm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Do you have any photos of the frame headtube and the internals, is the fork steerer open to the cables?
The fork steerer tube is not open to cables. The cables go in the "front" partitioned section of the head tube (in front of the steerer/fork) then snake back into the frame. The area is the gap that people talk about and the hole in the spacers/cap. Frame is getting painted currently, otherwise I would post a picture.
So is the fork steerer totally sealed off, for its entire length, from the front cavity of the head tube (where the cables go)?

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:48 pm
by Dan Gerous
S6ED wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 pm
bet1216 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:01 pm
cjm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Do you have any photos of the frame headtube and the internals, is the fork steerer open to the cables?
The fork steerer tube is not open to cables. The cables go in the "front" partitioned section of the head tube (in front of the steerer/fork) then snake back into the frame. The area is the gap that people talk about and the hole in the spacers/cap. Frame is getting painted currently, otherwise I would post a picture.
So is the fork steerer totally sealed off, for its entire length, from the front cavity of the head tube (where the cables go)?
Yes. The front brake hose enters the left fork leg just under the headtube, but the steerer itself is just a normal steerer without any holes.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:47 pm
by S6ED
Dan Gerous wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:48 pm
S6ED wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:18 pm
bet1216 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:01 pm
cjm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Do you have any photos of the frame headtube and the internals, is the fork steerer open to the cables?
The fork steerer tube is not open to cables. The cables go in the "front" partitioned section of the head tube (in front of the steerer/fork) then snake back into the frame. The area is the gap that people talk about and the hole in the spacers/cap. Frame is getting painted currently, otherwise I would post a picture.
So is the fork steerer totally sealed off, for its entire length, from the front cavity of the head tube (where the cables go)?
Yes. The front brake hose enters the left fork leg just under the headtube, but the steerer itself is just a normal steerer without any holes.
A D-shaped steerer, like current Ridley and Merckx bikes have, would make things so much easier. Not moaning, just saying.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:55 pm
by Dan Gerous
Why?

I much prefer Cannondale's solution than D-shaped steerers that mean wires/hoses are routed through headset bearings. Routing through bearings makes cleaning or replacing headset bearings such a PITA, especially with hydraulic brakes. Or hoses going through a hole in steerers so the fork can't be removed without a lot of work.

I'm not sure what you mean or what you want to know about sealed or non-sealed steerer.... Cannondale uses standard headset parts, you can access them without disconnecting brake hoses, wire and rear hose is simply routed around, simple, and in theory, a round steerer can be stronger while lighter.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:00 pm
by S6ED
Dan Gerous wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:55 pm
I'm not sure what you mean, or why? Or what you actually want to know.

I much prefer Cannondale's solution than D-shaped steerers that mean wires/hoses are routed through headset bearings. Routing through bearings makes cleaning or replacing headset bearings such a PITA, especially with hydraulic brakes.
I've been riding Cannondale bikes since 1995 and will probably not change this habit of mine.

With that said, I don't really like - aesthetically - the front end solution of the new Evo, though it is functional and easy to set up. Just my personal taste.

By the way, do you think the Deda Alanera idea, posted above, is feasible?

PS. Cannondale's front end solution is mechanically sound, I fully agree, in view of all points you mention.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm
by Dan Gerous
S6ED wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:00 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:55 pm
I'm not sure what you mean, or why? Or what you actually want to know.

I much prefer Cannondale's solution than D-shaped steerers that mean wires/hoses are routed through headset bearings. Routing through bearings makes cleaning or replacing headset bearings such a PITA, especially with hydraulic brakes.
I've been riding Cannondale bikes since 1995 and will probably not change this habit of mine.

With that said, I don't really like - aesthetically - the front end solution of the new Evo, though it is functional and easy to set up. Just my personal taste.

By the way, do you think the Deda Alanera idea, posted above, is feasible?
Yeah I think the Deda DCR Alanera could work, depending of your spacers situation. If it's slammed, because the hoses exit the stem against the fork steerer, they may bend sharply and push with more force against the part of the frame right in front of the top headset bearing and that could hinder steering a bit... I guess DCR is made for FSA's solution of a bigger top bearing and routing through it... which for me may look nice but is functionally not acceptable... for me personally. I want to be able to clean bearings yearly or more if I ride a lot in rain, I want it to be easy to put a bike in my travel box so it kind of makes me appreciate Cannondale's solution.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:14 pm
by hannawald
I don't see how you bend the cables back to reach hole in Cannondale frame..i mean the hole is so close to the fork steerer that any headset cover or stem spacer will cover part of the hole..

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:17 pm
by S6ED
Dan Gerous wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm
S6ED wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:00 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:55 pm
I'm not sure what you mean, or why? Or what you actually want to know.

I much prefer Cannondale's solution than D-shaped steerers that mean wires/hoses are routed through headset bearings. Routing through bearings makes cleaning or replacing headset bearings such a PITA, especially with hydraulic brakes.
I've been riding Cannondale bikes since 1995 and will probably not change this habit of mine.

With that said, I don't really like - aesthetically - the front end solution of the new Evo, though it is functional and easy to set up. Just my personal taste.

By the way, do you think the Deda Alanera idea, posted above, is feasible?
Yeah I think the Deda DCR Alanera could work, depending of your spacers situation. If it's slammed, because the hoses exit the stem against the fork steerer, they may bend sharply and push with more force against the part of the frame right in front of the top headset bearing and that could hinder steering a bit... I guess DCR is made for FSA's solution of a bigger top bearing and routing through it... which for me may look nice but is functionally not acceptable... for me personally. I want to be able to clean bearings yearly or more if I ride a lot in rain, I want it to be easy to put a bike in my travel box so it kind of makes me appreciate Cannondale's solution.
Yes, my thoughts too, regarding serviceability and ease of travel. Apropos the Alanera bar, I suppose one has to try it to find out :roll: $$$

PS. I have to admit that your argumentation has made me rethink and reappreciate the new Evo's front end design. Now I may have to buy it :P

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:40 pm
by S6ED
hannawald wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:14 pm
I don't see how you bend the cables back to reach hole in Cannondale frame..i mean the hole is so close to the fork steerer that any headset cover or stem spacer will cover part of the hole..
Yes, that is the question.
Perhaps possible with the pictured headset cover. I understand that the hoses will come through the stem from the very front of the bike (the shifters) in the upper part of the inside of the Alanera stem (which is rather spacious, looks like), then make a bend downward and forward, and then exit the stem with direction toward the front of the bike and downward, into the hole of the head tube. One has to try it to really be sure whether it's possible. I'd say possibly yes, with this headset cover.

Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:40 pm
by Weenie

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Re: Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:15 pm
by Dan Gerous
I would say the opposite, with this normal round headset cover as in your picture, if the Alanera is right against it, the exit port of the stem will be almost completely blocked by the cover. Thinking it over, the exit port is really made for the ACR headset so any cover or spacer will likely block the exit port almost completely, probably partially enough that hoses would get pinched or crushed there.

One solution if you really want those bars is to have the hoses exit the two holes underneath the tops, then use the little bolt at the center to fix a DIY tube or loop or something and route the hoses through that, or at least keep them attached there so they would stay close to the underside of the stem, then enter the frame, and use the hole only for a Di2 wire, if that fits, as a Di2 wire is much smaller and much more flexible than a brake hose.