Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

The top tube has a flatter top, but it's no razor's edge!

Why mess with the current Evo? Why be against progress? Why stay with a light bike if it holds you back everywhere but on steep climbs when you can have a light bike that climbs as fast but that is faster on the flat, down the descents and on less steep climbs? Some might argue it's a regress if you prioritize looks over performance and happen to like classic, old-school looking bikes but that's subjective, performance is more objective and Cannondale have always been more about engineering, performance than styling.

This is going to be a much better all around race bike IMO. Sure the SystemSix has the aero market covered, but it's way too heavy to be interesting to a lot of people, it's not as good of a do it all race bike.

And as good as the current Evo is, it's showing it's age, it wasn't attracting too much new buyers appart from die-hard Cannondale fans because it is old school and looks somewhat outdated when you walk into a store and see it next to other bikes, SystemSix or other brands. This brings it to modern day performance standards of the current top of the crop of modern racing all-arounders and pushes things a bit further. Unlike the SL6 and teammachine, the new Evo should be much more aero as it doesn't just have dropped stays and D-shapped seat tube with more conventional shapes everywhere else, it's designed to be aero from fork tips to rear dropouts, I wouldn't be surprised if the bike, with good aero wheels and an aero bar, was faster than many pure aero bikes on the market.

Nobody is right or wrong for looks. I didn't particularly liked it when I first saw leaked photos, but I was looking at it in the Dauphiné stage today and it is growing on me, my Evo 2 starts to look like it's from another era (well, it is) and usually, our take on new bikes can really change when we see them in real life. I didn't like the SystemSix too much when it was first seen, even after the launch with proper photos, but when I saw one in the flesh, it was very impressive and now I quite like it.

And you know, if people are happy with the current Evo and prefer it's look and don't mind the aero penalty, just ride the current Evo, it wont dissolve in thin air on June 28th.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8421
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Dan Gerous wrote:Leaving capitalism aside, a lot of people are willing to live with the added weight of discs, the higher maintenance, the high risk of brake rub, the higher price because the braking is that much better (to them), so what's 2 watts of aerodynamic drag lost to discs really? :mrgreen:
Speaking for myself, I’ll just say that I’m not in that group you describe as willing to live with all those negatives you just mentioned and then some, especially when the braking of discs is not “that much better” than my rim brake setups. As for the 2 watts of aero loss, if that’s what it is, I don’t personally care about the aero aspects one way or another, as to me it really is quite insignificant to my riding enjoyment. But in the not too long ago days when marketers were all about aero only it would be huge, like a 4” length of exposed 4mm cable housing. But now that they want to capitalize on both aero AND discs, two technologies that are at odds with each other... well, the negative aero aspects of discs are suddenly “no big deal”. It’s all about the spin.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


fizzaz
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:02 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

by fizzaz

BagelMaster wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:48 pm
3Pio wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:43 pm
There was also two accidents here with Early Disc adaptors.. In both case they grab the brakes in Panic way.. Both of them broke the hips.. One off the bike 6 months, other one off the bike totaly (he stopped riding after his injury) and he needed few surgerys.. While they were on Rim Brake road bikes, they didnt have dangerous Panic Braking.... So not all the time Discs are safer... Or other case few months ago, riding in the group.. The guy in the front panic brake, and few peoples was crashed each other from the other rows..Im not saying that this wont happened with Rim Brakes, but at least less chance for panic and not controlled braking.... Anyway, let's dont make this topic against Rim Vs Discs....Each to his own.. For me and my riding, i'll try to avoid Discs as much as possible.. Might buy another Rim Brake Frameset just to be sure i'll have it for another few years...
Fortunately you can stop beating your dead horse because there is a rim brake model.

How many times do we need to let every new bike thread devolve into a generic rim vs. disc debate? It’s getting old.

Beat me to it. At this point, it just needs to be an auto-delete.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

Dan Gerous wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:53 pm

Why mess with the current Evo? Why be against progress? Why stay with a light bike if it holds you back everywhere but on steep climbs when you can have a light bike that climbs as fast but that is faster on the flat, down the descents and on less steep climbs? Some might argue it's a regress if you prioritize looks over performance and happen to like classic, old-school looking bikes but that's subjective, performance is more objective and Cannondale have always been more about engineering, performance than styling.
Nobody is against progress here. Guess everybody here would go for another bike. I just need some good whitepaper explaining to the engineer in me, why I need the EVO 3, and then all is good. So could we get a nice technical rundown, while waiting impatiently so see one in real life ?
Last edited by GrumpyOldPizza on Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

We won't get all the tech talk until the official launch obviously.

It looks quite slick from the front with discs. Old Evo vs new one:
D8tPrjtWsAAzo8-.jpg-large.jpeg

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

If it ends up being both faster and cheaper than the sworks sl6/teamamchine, then I will buy it. And promplty strip that amazingly horrendeous new logo. That just cannot stay like that! Or could it. On the systemsix the C is hidden behind the chainrings. Whoever is in charge for design/image there is on something really nasty.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Paint jobs I have seen all have the logo really small on the top tube (like the latest release SystemSix and Synapse with eTAP AXS), not a big one on the downtube like the EF guys have. I like the new logo but I agree it doesn't quite work in a classic typical big downtube application, especailly if it's too low and getting behind the chainrings... makes sense to have it bigger for them so we see it on TV but I'm not quite sure what went on to place is too low like they did.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

I think it was perfect as it was on the previous gen supersix. Even that bright green, super flashy in your face yet not too gaudy. What I see now is some sort of nod to the gooffy 80s - 90s styling. It worked then and we can (slightly condescendingly) love it now, but on a 2020 bike its worse than a cartoon.

Stueys
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

Dan Gerous wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm
We won't get all the tech talk until the official launch obviously.

It looks quite slick from the front with discs. Old Evo vs new one:

D8tPrjtWsAAzo8-.jpg-large.jpeg
Looks very slick from the front

User avatar
C36
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Until we get the official hi-res pictures with final paint schemes, a lot would remain in the speculation (the caad13 thread just had first proper hi-res picture posted and several members already changed their mind)... ok the rear cable routing is a fact...
At the end, aero, weight, stiffness and how the bike rides will be key to see if the SSE3 replaces the benchmark the SSE2 is (and to a certain extend the SL6 despite being newer, is not far away).


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4008
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dan Gerous wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm
We won't get all the tech talk until the official launch obviously.

It looks quite slick from the front with discs. Old Evo vs new one:

D8tPrjtWsAAzo8-.jpg-large.jpeg

Narrow tires, no exposed front cables and an aero drop bar would certainly make it faster than the Tarmac in a wind tunnel test. We’ll see if an aero drop bar is standard equipment on the top level bike...

tarmackev
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

Seeing it in the Dauphine I like it.
One thing that is of interest is the weight, if it’s a real featherweight with all the other appropriate ride characteristics then I’m in.

Would need a closer look before deciding disc or non disc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Karvalo
Posts: 702
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:12 pm
I don't quite get why Cannondale went this route. They have the aero bike covered with the SystemSix. They have the endurance bike covered with the Synapse. And they have the crit racer down with the CAAD series. Why mess up the light weight climbing bike in the range ?
What makes you think they've messed it up? You haven't seen any weights or stiffness stats yet, but we know a very light and responsive bike is possible with that style of frame shape, so what would you say if it turns out they've kept the climbing performance but added more comfort and aero to make it a significantly better all round race bike?

Miles253
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

Dan Gerous wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm
We won't get all the tech talk until the official launch obviously.

It looks quite slick from the front with discs. Old Evo vs new one:

D8tPrjtWsAAzo8-.jpg-large.jpeg
The lack of cables from the front would certainly appeal to me, that's the only thing making the Tarmac look a tad out of date now.
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

I'm like Calnago, I still think disc brakes have more cons (weight, added cost, added maintenance, almost unavoidable brake rub...) than pros (better braking for sure but, by how much? longer wheel lifespan, personally I find disc bikes look better) compared to rim brakes... And it would be much simpler to swap my Evo 2 frameset with a rim brake Evo 3 as i have nice wheels, groupset, SISL2, I would just need DM ee brakes...

But damn, I like how clean the disc model is now that I see it in the Dauphiné with nicer wheels/kit than the crappy leaked photo of an entry level one. It looks really good IMO with the hidden routing. My Evo looks like a dinosaur now....

I kind of expect the framesets to be a bit heavier than current Evos, especially rim brake ones as there looks to be quite a bit more material, especially the fork crown and that area, it would be hard to make any fork much lighter than the current Hi-Mod rim brake fork anyway... but by how much? Maybe not that much. But I think the weight to aero ratio penalty will be quite smaller than on the SystemSix, it should still be a great climbing bike, they're very aware they can't hurt climbing performance and I'm guessing geometry wont change too much if at all. Looking forward to all the specs and tech...

Image

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post