Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
S6ED
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

alexneumuller wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:18 pm
Image
Ausgezeichnet! A beauty by the river!

by Weenie


Discodan
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Dan Gerous wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:18 am
That BB in your pic is a PF30 whereas the SSE has a BB30a which is 5mm wider. I'm just speculating but maybe they've used a PF30 BB (cheaper?) and ditched the internal sleeve as it's not long enough for PF30a. I'm not sure, but really it's not enough of an issue that I'd be replacing the BB to fix it, it's actually an advantage as you can access the internals of the frame just by removing the cranks and not the BB as well

Re the bearings being pressed straight into the frame, it's actually usually only the higher quality carbon frames that can get away with this as it relies on closer tolerances but it's common. The BB30, BB90, BB93, and BB95 standards all have the bearings pressed straight into the frame. There may actually be a very minimal plastic cup between the frame and bearing on the G3 SSE (therefore technically making it a PF30a), I didn't look that closely, but Cannondale pressed straight into the frame in other models. Have a read of the article below, a decent explanation of all of their confusingly named and weird BB "standards"

https://www.kogel.cc/blogs/kbba/cannond ... -explained
I think you are confused with the terms here. BB30, PF30, BB30a, PF30a all use the same bearings, 'a' stands for asymetric and refers to the non-driveside bearing being moved 5mm outboard and a width of 73mm but can be in both BB30a or PF30a frame while BB30 and PF30 are symetrical and 68mm wide. Then the more critical distinction as far as BB goes, BB30 (and BB30a) means bearings are pressed directly into the frame which is either an alloy frame or has a permanently bonded alloy sleeve with the bearing bores and circlips, PF30 (and PF30a) means the bearings are installed into cups and it's the cups that are pressed into the frame.

The FSA BB pictured above is both a PF30 and PF30a, most PF30 BB also work in PF30a frames.

1st gen Evo was PF30, gen 2 and now 3 are both PF30a.

Personally I prefer not having a sleeve between bearings as it allows access to Di2 wires and junction box without having to take off the whole BB in frames without a big opening underneath the frame, it's not needed often but is easy enough to route everything while making sure nothing touches the spindle.
No confusion, we’re both saying exactly the same thing but sometime it gets lost in the words

In shorthand: BB=bearings in frame (not just limited to cheap frames), PF=bearings in cups, 30a=5mm wider (which may be the reason there's no internal sleeve which is what the start point of the topic was)

It's all a topic hijack, apologies Alex. The bike looks spectacular so well done!

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Hexsense
Posts: 1032
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Discodan wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:28 pm

In shorthand: BB=bearings in frame (not just limited to cheap frames), PF=bearings in cups, 30a=5mm wider (which may be the reason there's no internal sleeve which is what the start point of the topic was)

It's all a topic hijack, apologies Alex. The bike looks spectacular so well done!
Yeah, why can't we just say the bottom bracket type by their measurement?
BB30 - 42mm ID, 68mm wide
PF30 - 46mm ID, 68mm wide
BB30a - 42mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)
PF30a - 46mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)

Say, Cannondale SS Evo gen 3 has BB with 46mm ID, asymetric 73mm wide would be so much clearer than saying it is PF30a (or sometime they miscall it as BB30a to further confuse people).

S6ED
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:15 pm
Discodan wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:28 pm

In shorthand: BB=bearings in frame (not just limited to cheap frames), PF=bearings in cups, 30a=5mm wider (which may be the reason there's no internal sleeve which is what the start point of the topic was)

It's all a topic hijack, apologies Alex. The bike looks spectacular so well done!
Yeah, why can't we just say the bottom bracket type by their measurement?
BB30 - 42mm ID, 68mm wide
PF30 - 46mm ID, 68mm wide
BB30a - 42mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)
PF30a - 46mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)

Say, Cannondale SS Evo gen 3 has BB with 46mm ID, asymetric 73mm wide would be so much clearer than saying it is PF30a (or sometime they miscall it as BB30a to further confuse people).
Perhaps because all these subtypes share the same bearing size: 42x30x7. In any case, when I read PF30A (which is what my gen2 Evo has), I understand press fit (=with cups), 73mm asymmetrical. On Cannondale's site is also stated PF30A in the specs of the gen3 Evo.

Kortekeer
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:05 am

by Kortekeer

Hi All,

Collected my supersix HM yesterday, the came day the shop that I bought it from was closing down so I got a great, great bargain in their liquidation sale :D
I was torn between getting a 56 & a 58 but they sold the 58 in the time between me calling and walking to the shop, which made my choice a lot easier. I was torn between this and a Volt coloured Systemsix but the discount won me around but I now have horrendous buyers remorse, but I imagine that would've happened had I bought the other way around also.
The seatpost slipped a good 3" down on my short ride home from work, shop mechanic fail or already discussed seatpost issue I don't know, but hopefully the former.

I was surpised when I weighed it, with 105 pedals and no bottle or garmin mounts, that it came to 7.97kg. That was the weight of my previous, non HM supersix with only an SLR saddle as deviation from stock. Even with the discs I kind of expected closer to 7.7.

Is there a difference between the hollogram and hollogram si cranks? I'd like it to be around 7.7kg but I'd also like the integrated cockpit as I like the look, so will need to lose c400grms somewhere, once the wallet has recovered a bit. Guess I may have swung more toward the System six if I'd known weights were so close, ah well.

S6ED
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Kortekeer wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:51 am
Hi All,

Collected my supersix HM yesterday, the came day the shop that I bought it from was closing down so I got a great, great bargain in their liquidation sale :D
I was torn between getting a 56 & a 58 but they sold the 58 in the time between me calling and walking to the shop, which made my choice a lot easier. I was torn between this and a Volt coloured Systemsix but the discount won me around but I now have horrendous buyers remorse, but I imagine that would've happened had I bought the other way around also.
The seatpost slipped a good 3" down on my short ride home from work, shop mechanic fail or already discussed seatpost issue I don't know, but hopefully the former.

I was surpised when I weighed it, with 105 pedals and no bottle or garmin mounts, that it came to 7.97kg. That was the weight of my previous, non HM supersix with only an SLR saddle as deviation from stock. Even with the discs I kind of expected closer to 7.7.

Is there a difference between the hollogram and hollogram si cranks? I'd like it to be around 7.7kg but I'd also like the integrated cockpit as I like the look, so will need to lose c400grms somewhere, once the wallet has recovered a bit. Guess I may have swung more toward the System six if I'd known weights were so close, ah well.
Congrats on your new bike! The SuperSix frameset is considerably lighter than the SystemSix one, so all else being kept equal, this is the lighter option.
The lightest cranks are the SiSL2 and the lightest chainrings are the 10-arm ones. If you upgrade the pedals to something lighter, say from the Time Xpresso or Xpro line, you'll save quite a lot of weight for not so much money. Going tubeless (if not already so from the factory) will also help and will increase ride quality and safety.

Kortekeer
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:05 am

by Kortekeer

Thanks for the pointers

Yeah I know the pedals are not the lightest but they were on my previous bike so make for a fair comparison. I looked at Ralphs a few pages back (which helped make my decision also) and was trying to figure where 900grm difference was, c200in the bar/stem, 150 in the wheels and some in the cranks and cassette. I guess all the little bits after that really add up.

Will be keeping a look out for some Di2 bargains as it is high on the want list

Obligatory pic attached :D
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C36
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Hexsense wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:28 pm

In shorthand: BB=bearings in frame (not just limited to cheap frames), PF=bearings in cups, 30a=5mm wider (which may be the reason there's no internal sleeve which is what the start point of the topic was)

It's all a topic hijack, apologies Alex. The bike looks spectacular so well done!
Yeah, why can't we just say the bottom bracket type by their measurement?
BB30 - 42mm ID, 68mm wide
PF30 - 46mm ID, 68mm wide
BB30a - 42mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)
PF30a - 46mm ID, 73mm wide (asymetric, extra 5mm on NDS)

Say, Cannondale SS Evo gen 3 has BB with 46mm ID, asymetric 73mm wide would be so much clearer than saying it is PF30a (or sometime they miscall it as BB30a to further confuse people).
Caad13 and SSe3 are aligned with realityImageImage


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floriansantana
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

Kortekeer wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:46 am
Thanks for the pointers

Yeah I know the pedals are not the lightest but they were on my previous bike so make for a fair comparison. I looked at Ralphs a few pages back (which helped make my decision also) and was trying to figure where 900grm difference was, c200in the bar/stem, 150 in the wheels and some in the cranks and cassette. I guess all the little bits after that really add up.

Will be keeping a look out for some Di2 bargains as it is high on the want list

Obligatory pic attached :D
Just some insight from me if you want to drop the weight of the bike significantly:
- Stem and handlebars are very heavy, so it’s easy to save 150g for cheap.
- Go with light tubes or tubeless, it will save another 200g for a little money.
- Use a lighter cassette, the 105 cassette is pretty heavy.
- The stock Prologo saddle is also quite heavy, so it’s easy to lose some 150g here as well.

That’s like 500-600g right there without shelling out a lot of money.

Kortekeer
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:05 am

by Kortekeer

Thanks.

Went for first ride this morning. After the post slippage riding it home from the shop I applied some carbon paste and torqued it up to 6nm with my torque wrench. Post was creaking like a bitch straight from the door. It slipped a good 5cm in the space of 5km. Adjusted it back up but was creaking and slipped again so fobbed it off and went home.

Saved some weight though as all that slipping has stripped some material from the post. Guess it’ll be off back to cannondale. I miss the seatpost binder on my old S6.
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S6ED
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Kortekeer wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:19 am
Thanks.

Went for first ride this morning. After the post slippage riding it home from the shop I applied some carbon paste and torqued it up to 6nm with my torque wrench. Post was creaking like a bitch straight from the door. It slipped a good 5cm in the space of 5km. Adjusted it back up but was creaking and slipped again so fobbed it off and went home.

Saved some weight though as all that slipping has stripped some material from the post. Guess it’ll be off back to cannondale. I miss the seatpost binder on my old S6.
Hmm... not good... There's a number of owners of the new evo reporting similar issues.

g32ecs
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Farsports has a stem/bar combo yall may be interested with

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5PFoUkFTcx ... 4j8jb2hgqe

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kgt
Posts: 8017
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

So big companies have not always the best qc as some people believe...

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

g32ecs wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:28 pm
Farsports has a stem/bar combo yall may be interested with

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5PFoUkFTcx ... 4j8jb2hgqe
Good find, although I'm usually no fan of those no-name companies (it is a bit to me, might be wrong here), on paper it looks like a winner, very clean modern lines that fits in well with the Evo frame. Good weight for an integrated stem + bar + Garmin mount. Over 250gr lighter than KNØT, 100gr lighter and about 1/3 of the price of a Vision Metron too, without the Vision's uglyness as well... Not as good if you travel often though with routing fully internal until two small holes right above the Evo's routing channel. It's 1.25" so uses a shim for 1 1/8 steerers.

Image

Good range of sizes too:

Image
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by Weenie


Bluechip
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:04 am

by Bluechip

I saw the Farsports bar/stem combo but I couldn't find the anle of the stem. Does that say 10°?

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