Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
skyliner1004
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:38 am

by skyliner1004

furiousferret wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:18 pm
I've been looking into cockpit options for a 105 disc and I really want to have the cables hidden. I know 2 options are the Metron and Knot, but the Metron isn't as 'clean' and then Knot is heavy.
666pounder wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:08 pm
Was watching Tour of Utah yesterday and it's interesting that Joe Dobrowski was riding his old Supersix.
Dombrowski is a pure climber both mentally and physically. He's going to take the lightest bike going in, and the new gen isn't as light. I don't think its necessarily a knock on the new bike.

Rant: I find it depressing af we can't find an American cyclist good enough to win our home races. The Pro Tour races outside of Western Europe typically have someone from the home nation good enough to win (see Tour Down Under, Tour of Norway). USA Cycling is a mess.
https://www.merlincycles.com/3t-ernova- ... 16066.html
I use this on my 2018 and it has internal cable routing, weighed 198g

To reply to your rant, cycling simply isn't big enough in america. Americans like "big hits" "fast fast fast (sprints, strength, muscle, fireworks)," "i beat you by x points!"
Yes, i'm american and watch football, ufc, etc.
2018 Supersix Evo Hi-Mod Disc Dura-Ace
Conti SS + Gp5000
3t Ernova Team
Garmin 520 Plus
Look Keo Blade 2 Carbon Ti
15lb 15oz

by Weenie


GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

furiousferret wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:18 pm
I've been looking into cockpit options for a 105 disc and I really want to have the cables hidden. I know 2 options are the Metron and Knot, but the Metron isn't as 'clean' and then Knot is heavy.
666pounder wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:08 pm
Was watching Tour of Utah yesterday and it's interesting that Joe Dobrowski was riding his old Supersix.
Dombrowski is a pure climber both mentally and physically. He's going to take the lightest bike going in, and the new gen isn't as light. I don't think its necessarily a knock on the new bike.
IMHO the UCI limit of 6.8kg would apply to both the EVO 2 and the EVO 3. Looks like even the disc version of the EVO 3 can get down to this limit. GIven that, Joe picked the EVO 2 over the EVO 3 because it would do the job better for him.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

skyliner1004 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:11 pm
To reply to your rant, cycling simply isn't big enough in america. Americans like "big hits" "fast fast fast (sprints, strength, muscle, fireworks)," "i beat you by x points!"
Yes, i'm american and watch football, ufc, etc.
Perhaps it would help if the power, cadence and heart rate data would be available to the spectator. One could compare data and "he beat him by x watts on the climb" ...

Discodan
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

In the hunt for an integrated bar that will allow the best integration of the cables for the SS, the best option I can see so far is the canyon cockpits. I’m leaning that way because they have a cavity under the stem (for the di2 box I think) that would let you exit the cables just in front of the steerer where it could drop down into the cable port. This would require a shim as the canyon stem is built for a 1 1/4 steerer but that’s easily available

I’m planning to firstly see if I can shape one of the SS spacers so that it blends into the underside of the stem but need to see if that’s feasible. Worst case involves learning how to model in 3D and printing up a custom spacer that transitions from the SS spacers to the underside of the stem

What’s the chance someone has a canyon cockpit and a ss spacer sitting around and could take some photo’s?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

refthimos
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Discodan wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:31 pm
In the hunt for an integrated bar that will allow the best integration of the cables for the SS, the best option I can see so far is the canyon cockpits. I’m leaning that way because they have a cavity under the stem (for the di2 box I think) that would let you exit the cables just in front of the steerer where it could drop down into the cable port. This would require a shim as the canyon stem is built for a 1 1/4 steerer but that’s easily available
A while back, I went ahead and bought the eBay bar I linked to above (thinking I might put it on my SystemSix). It looks like a copy of the Canyon Aerocockpit CF. I found that the plastic pieces underneath the bar that keep the cables in place were pretty rough on the hands, unless you wrapped the middle section, but that's not something I do with aero road bars. Maybe the Canyon is different/better than the eBay bar, but even looking at a photo of the underside of the real Canyon bar below, it seems like a bit janky cable routing, which is perhaps not surprising since the Aeroad doesn't have integrated cable routing like the EVO3 and all the photos you see of the Aeroroad show the cables exiting the bars in their usual place, not at the top of the head tube:

Image
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.35kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

refthimos
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Meanwhile the Syncros Creston iC SL is supposed to be lighter than than the Canyon bar and is designed to support full cable management:

Image

Image
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.35kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

Miles253
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:32 am

by Miles253

refthimos wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:06 am
Meanwhile the Syncros Creston iC SL is supposed to be lighter than than the Canyon bar and is designed to support full cable management:

Image

Image
It's really nice looking. What I can't figure out is what it's all going to look like using a proprietary bar for another bike, on your bike. It's something I'm considering for my Venge.

Surely the spacers and such don't line up or create some edges etc.
Specialized S-Works Venge | in progress
Rose Backroad | 9kg
Canyon Ultimate CF SL | 7.5kg

https://www.findyourroad.co.uk/
Instagram: @miles_bc

robeambro
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

refthimos wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:06 am
Meanwhile the Syncros Creston iC SL is supposed to be lighter than than the Canyon bar and is designed to support full cable management:



Scott managed to design such a better looking product than Cannondale did. Just y'all look at these two.

Image
Image

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

refthimos wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:57 am


A while back, I went ahead and bought the eBay bar I linked to above (thinking I might put it on my SystemSix). It looks like a copy of the Canyon Aerocockpit CF. I found that the plastic pieces underneath the bar that keep the cables in place were pretty rough on the hands, unless you wrapped the middle section, but that's not something I do with aero road bars. Maybe the Canyon is different/better than the eBay bar, but even looking at a photo of the underside of the real Canyon bar below, it seems like a bit janky cable routing, which is perhaps not surprising since the Aeroad doesn't have integrated cable routing like the EVO3 and all the photos you see of the Aeroroad show the cables exiting the bars in their usual place, not at the top of the head tube:

Image
I have the same thing. I eventually dispenced with those plastic pieces - you don't need them. Just a bit of electrical tape on the underside and the bar tape where the indented part ends is sufficient to hold cables in place.

I like this bar, a lot. It's comfy, has a nice shape to grab anywhere, and stiff and light enough. That said, I am not convinced whether it can produce a fully integrated design, or how it would look like on a non-canyon bike. It's the small bits: will you be able to fit the supplied cap with their screw into the expansion plug, do the cable exit the underside channel in the right spot, and what do you do with spacers. Also, on my bike, the channel under the stem is occupied with the Di2 junction box, for which it is perfectly sized to fit snugly and with no extra support. Not sure how it would work with cables or what you do with Di2 then (unless you have the newer version that fits into the bar end. Anyway, it's plausible, but needs some careful thought and testing.

TomSte
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:18 am

by TomSte

floriansantana wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:38 am
Down to 7,2 kilos.

That thing rides like a charm. And is really light.

And the paintjob is crazy cool, because the grey part is not just grey but shines in rainbow glow in different angles.
@floriansantana: Could you please tell us what handlebar you are using?

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

robeambro wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:36 am

Scott managed to design such a better looking product than Cannondale did. Just y'all look at these two.
Cleaning the headset will be loads of fun with the Scott, so is travelling... :|

furiousferret
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:11 am

by furiousferret

While all this stuff is designed proprietary, it does seem like if you got a Syncros cockpit and threw it on your Evo, one could design a good transition spacer to make it look clean.

I'm not sure how much that would cost to send it to a shop and have them figure it out, but it would be worth it to eliminate the janky look.

Also, how many grams are we talking for a weight penalty for the Knot cockpit? They don't post the weights anywhere.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

furiousferret wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:19 pm
While all this stuff is designed proprietary, it does seem like if you got a Syncros cockpit and threw it on your Evo, one could design a good transition spacer to make it look clean.

I'm not sure how much that would cost to send it to a shop and have them figure it out, but it would be worth it to eliminate the janky look.

Also, how many grams are we talking for a weight penalty for the Knot cockpit? They don't post the weights anywhere.
Someone could 3D print some spacers... Thought about that, for the Canyon bars... I'd rather have the wires/hoses in an accessible recess and not fully internal like the Syncros, much easier to put it in a bike box. Plus I don't like the Y shape of the Syncros, the Canyon looks much nicer IMO.

The KNOT cockpit weights were posted a while ago, 288.8gr for the stem/bolt/spacers and 292.6gr for the bar, taken off a 56 or 58 bike... :shock: That's why they don't mention it! :mrgreen:

refthimos
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

robeambro wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:36 am
Scott managed to design such a better looking product than Cannondale did. Just y'all look at these two.
In fairness to Cannondale, the Knot cockpit:

(1) Makes travel / servicing your bike easier
(2) Makes it easier for dealers and consumers to get the correct fit - two piece system vs one piece system is inherently more flexible
(3) Is less expensive than integrated carbon cockpits

But it sure is heavy!
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.35kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

by Weenie


floriansantana
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

TomSte wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 pm
floriansantana wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:38 am
Down to 7,2 kilos.

That thing rides like a charm. And is really light.

And the paintjob is crazy cool, because the grey part is not just grey but shines in rainbow glow in different angles.
@floriansantana: Could you please tell us what handlebar you are using?
Yeah, it’s a 3T Superergo Team Stealth. Cable routing is all inside until the very middle of the bar besides the stem which makes the routing very clean. And it’s sub 200g for a 42cm width.

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