Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Sock3t
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

Karvalo wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:29 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm
Now for $7800 I can build up a Colnago V2-R, or for $8500 a Colnago V3RS (Fulcrum wheels, Ultegra Di2), with the components that I really want (Saddle, Tires, Tubes ....). So why again would I want to buy a EVO 3, and spend more ?
Apples for apples - the Evo3 frameset will be available in January at £1000 cheaper than the V3R. So why again wouldn't you want to buy an Evo 3, and spend less? :wink:
I don't have to wait 6 months for the Colnago.

robeambro
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Karvalo wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:29 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm
Now for $7800 I can build up a Colnago V2-R, or for $8500 a Colnago V3RS (Fulcrum wheels, Ultegra Di2), with the components that I really want (Saddle, Tires, Tubes ....). So why again would I want to buy a EVO 3, and spend more ?
Apples for apples - the Evo3 frameset will be available in January at £1000 cheaper than the V3R. So why again wouldn't you want to buy an Evo 3, and spend less? :wink:
I take it the Evo3 frameset does not include the cockpit? Which on one side is good since it's an ugly boat anchor, but on the other may not make for an apple-to-apple comparison if the V3Rs does include the cockpit in the frameset kit.

If the Evo3 is 1000 quid cheaper vs the Colnago (both without cockpit) then for me it's a no brainer to get the former. Evo3 + Vision cockpit and you still have half of those savings to spend on components..

by Weenie


floriansantana
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

Can someone tell me, which stem angle the Vision Metron 5D integrated bar and stem has? I tried to look it up on the internet, but cannot find anything about it. Not even the FSA/Vision website offers an answer.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Disc
Cannondale SystemSix HiMod Disc
@floriansantana

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themidge
Posts: 1378
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: underneath sweet Scottish rain

by themidge

GCN did a video about Rigoberto Uran's new Supersix Evo, rim brake. The title says it's a HiMod, but it's never actually said so in the video, which suggests that it isn't a HiMod.

Also look at that cable routing for the Di2, pretty much as clean as etap even without the knot stem and bar.

robeambro
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

themidge wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:42 am
GCN did a video about Rigoberto Uran's new Supersix Evo, rim brake. The title says it's a HiMod, but it's never actually said so in the video, which suggests that it isn't a HiMod.

Also look at that cable routing for the Di2, pretty much as clean as etap even without the knot stem and bar.
The video had come out already and the title did not say "Hi-Mod". They've just re-issued it. Which also suggests this isn't a HiMod (or that maybe there will be one later on?).

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

themidge wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:42 am
Also look at that cable routing for the Di2, pretty much as clean as etap even without the knot stem and bar.
FSA OS-99 stem and FSA K-Energy bar ... Looks like a 52cm frame ?

Ah, and it's not the FSA Powermeter, but the Power2Max ...

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Beaver
Posts: 793
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

The title above the description says "Rigoberto Uran's Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-MOD | EF-Education First Tour de France Pro Bike".

Although not offered to the public, it shouldn't be a problem for them to order a frame with the different fibres.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Beaver wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
The title above the description says "Rigoberto Uran's Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-MOD | EF-Education First Tour de France Pro Bike".

Although not offered to the public, it shouldn't be a problem for them to order a frame with the different fibres.
Yeah but it's GCN, they're often wrong because they assume things. It would make zero sense to have a special batch of Hi-Mod frames for the team only to have to add more weight so they hit the weight limit. It would add a lot of costs for zero advantage.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:41 pm
Beaver wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
The title above the description says "Rigoberto Uran's Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-MOD | EF-Education First Tour de France Pro Bike".

Although not offered to the public, it shouldn't be a problem for them to order a frame with the different fibres.
Yeah but it's GCN, they're often wrong because they assume things. It would make zero sense to have a special batch of Hi-Mod frames for the team only to have to add more weight so they hit the weight limit. It would add a lot of costs for zero advantage.
Wasn't Hi-Mod also about stiffness and compliance ? Or is it really just about saving 200g of weight ?

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:41 pm
Beaver wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
The title above the description says "Rigoberto Uran's Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-MOD | EF-Education First Tour de France Pro Bike".

Although not offered to the public, it shouldn't be a problem for them to order a frame with the different fibres.
Yeah but it's GCN, they're often wrong because they assume things. It would make zero sense to have a special batch of Hi-Mod frames for the team only to have to add more weight so they hit the weight limit. It would add a lot of costs for zero advantage.
Wasn't Hi-Mod also about stiffness and compliance ? Or is it really just about saving 200g of weight ?
Just weight. When they do Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod versions of a frame, they don't just replace the carbon types between the two and call it done, the plies and layup are different so stiffness, compliance and feel are as close as possible.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Wasn't Hi-Mod also about stiffness and compliance ? Or is it really just about saving 200g of weight ?
Just weight. When they do Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod versions of a frame, they don't just replace the carbon types between the two and call it done, the plies and layup are different so stiffness, compliance and feel are as close as possible.
Thanx a lot for this feedback. I got the non Hi-Mod version of the EVO2, and always felt Hi-Mod envy. On the other hand my toy is at 6.7kg without questionable weightweenie parts, so an extra 200g would be just wasting money for bragging rights ...

Karvalo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

robeambro wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:23 am
Karvalo wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:29 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm
Now for $7800 I can build up a Colnago V2-R, or for $8500 a Colnago V3RS (Fulcrum wheels, Ultegra Di2), with the components that I really want (Saddle, Tires, Tubes ....). So why again would I want to buy a EVO 3, and spend more ?
Apples for apples - the Evo3 frameset will be available in January at £1000 cheaper than the V3R. So why again wouldn't you want to buy an Evo 3, and spend less? :wink:
I take it the Evo3 frameset does not include the cockpit? Which on one side is good since it's an ugly boat anchor, but on the other may not make for an apple-to-apple comparison if the V3Rs does include the cockpit in the frameset kit.
V3Rs definitely does not include the stem or bars.

Karvalo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:41 pm
Beaver wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm
The title above the description says "Rigoberto Uran's Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-MOD | EF-Education First Tour de France Pro Bike".

Although not offered to the public, it shouldn't be a problem for them to order a frame with the different fibres.
Yeah but it's GCN, they're often wrong because they assume things. It would make zero sense to have a special batch of Hi-Mod frames for the team only to have to add more weight so they hit the weight limit. It would add a lot of costs for zero advantage.
Wasn't Hi-Mod also about stiffness and compliance ? Or is it really just about saving 200g of weight ?
Just weight. When they do Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod versions of a frame, they don't just replace the carbon types between the two and call it done, the plies and layup are different so stiffness, compliance and feel are as close as possible.
Right, but the choices aren't only SM and HM. It's not uncommon for teams and even individual high profile riders to have custom pro-only layups. If C'Dale wants to give Rigo a bike that's lighter than SM and stiffer than HM they absolutely can.

floriansantana
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

themidge wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:42 am
Also look at that cable routing for the Di2, pretty much as clean as etap even without the knot stem and bar.
It looks pretty much the same as on every rim brake bike with electronic shifting. Cables are attached to the brake hose with heat shrink and that’s it. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

Regarding Hi Mod or Standard Mod: They have another video, where they talk about how much an TdF bike costs and there they mention, that the rim brake model is not the Hi Mod version and should therefore be a lot cheaper than other TdF bikes.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Disc
Cannondale SystemSix HiMod Disc
@floriansantana

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:32 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:59 pm
GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:41 pm

Yeah but it's GCN, they're often wrong because they assume things. It would make zero sense to have a special batch of Hi-Mod frames for the team only to have to add more weight so they hit the weight limit. It would add a lot of costs for zero advantage.
Wasn't Hi-Mod also about stiffness and compliance ? Or is it really just about saving 200g of weight ?
Just weight. When they do Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod versions of a frame, they don't just replace the carbon types between the two and call it done, the plies and layup are different so stiffness, compliance and feel are as close as possible.
Right, but the choices aren't only SM and HM. It's not uncommon for teams and even individual high profile riders to have custom pro-only layups. If C'Dale wants to give Rigo a bike that's lighter than SM and stiffer than HM they absolutely can.
True, but it's more for star riders who prefer very stiff rides, rarely for weight. Given a rim brake non Hi-Mod Evo has no trouble being way under 6.8kg, especially in a small size like Rigo uses, I doubt they would make a custom one as they would then need to add more useless weight somewhere... unless he really likes a super stiff ride.

Usually companies will do these custom layups for sprinters who typically always want stiffer and stiffer, 60kg climbers rarely ask for this. But since Cannondale only developped a rim brake Evo 3 because the team wanted it and that they have tested it for a while before production, I'm pretty sure they made it stiff enough that the team is happy and that's what consumers will get... That's just assumption on my part.

by Weenie


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