Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

Hexsense
Posts: 2119
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

It's a thing for companies with actual local distribution networks. They make a deal with distributors on who sell and service which location. Having a random guy undercut everyone else mess up the system. So they make sure all bike can trace back to it's distributor who sell it. They treat bike not from authorized distributor as non warranty one to deter such grey market selling. That also ease local distributors from having to fix bike improperly assemble or service by unauthorized dealers.

Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.

by Weenie


RDY
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Hexsense wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:23 am
It's a thing for companies with actual local distribution networks. They make a deal with distributors on who sell and service which location. Having a random guy undercut everyone else mess up the system. So they make sure all bike can trace back to it's distributor who sell it. They treat bike not from authorized distributor as non warranty one to deter such grey market selling. That also ease local distributors from having to fix bike improperly assemble or service by unauthorized dealers.

Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.
You're tip-toeing around what it really is. Price fixing.

Wenne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:54 pm

by Wenne

RDY wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:55 am
Hexsense wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:23 am
It's a thing for companies with actual local distribution networks. They make a deal with distributors on who sell and service which location. Having a random guy undercut everyone else mess up the system. So they make sure all bike can trace back to it's distributor who sell it. They treat bike not from authorized distributor as non warranty one to deter such grey market selling. That also ease local distributors from having to fix bike improperly assemble or service by unauthorized dealers.

Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.
You're tip-toeing around what it really is. Price fixing.
the frames built in europe all have a guarantee vin up to a maximum of 5 years (bmc, scott ...). The frames that are built in China have a lifetime guarantee.
so cheap frames from china have a lifetime guarantee because they cost little and european frames only 5 years because they are expensive to build ...

incognitus
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Location: NYC

by incognitus

Hexsense wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:23 am
Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.
That's why I call them "proper" brands. With them, I buy a physical product, not a business model. I can buy it at any LBS/e-tailer, no upleasant suprises and cop outs later when the product has a problem, just because I did not check in the fineprint whether the LBS/e-tailer is "authorized". If you are the original buyer (sometimes, even if you are not), it is covered by warranty, period, as "proper" brands proudly stand behind their product.

That said, if the business model involves selling cheap frames mass-produced in China with sometimes shoddy engineering and "less than ideal" quality control (but a nice paint scheme and a "premium" markup), then probably having a lot of fine print in the warranty makes commercial sense, as long as people are willing to pay for it.

Wenne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:54 pm

by Wenne

incognitus wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:55 am
Hexsense wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:23 am
Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.
That's why I call them "proper" brands. With them, I buy a physical product, not a business model. I can buy it at any LBS/e-tailer, no upleasant suprises and cop outs later when the product has a problem, just because I did not check in the fineprint whether the LBS/e-tailer is "authorized". If you are the original buyer (sometimes, even if you are not), it is covered by warranty, period, as "proper" brands proudly stand behind their product.

That said, if the business model involves selling cheap frames mass-produced in China with sometimes shoddy engineering and "less than ideal" quality control (but a nice paint scheme and a "premium" markup), then probably having a lot of fine print in the warranty makes commercial sense, as long as people are willing to pay for it.
you said it really well

Wenne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:54 pm

by Wenne

who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?

Mcdeez
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

Focus Germany

Prosper00
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:12 am

by Prosper00

Many manufacturers, but typically only for their top end frames.

RDY
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 am
who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?
Trek stuff is mostly in China, and a few in Taiwan. Think it's been years since anything was made in US.

BMC all their higher end stuff is made in Taiwan, except for that 10,000 euro frameset which is made in Germany.

Scott, higher end in Taiwan, lower end in China.

What on earth made you think they were made in US / Europe? Corporate HQ being in a certain country doesn't mean they're made there.

floriansantana
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 am
who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?
What they said, virtually every frameset is made in Far East except a couple of Boutique manufacturers and maybe the very top end special frame sets of some brands (so basically none).

And Cannondales - as far as I know - are made in Taiwan.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Disc
Cannondale SystemSix HiMod Disc
@floriansantana

incognitus
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Location: NYC

by incognitus

floriansantana wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 9:32 pm
Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 am
who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?
What they said, virtually every frameset is made in Far East except a couple of Boutique manufacturers and maybe the very top end special frame sets of some brands (so basically none).

And Cannondales - as far as I know - are made in Taiwan.
Nope, the 2020 is made in China.
2020-Cannondale-SuperSix-Evo-16.jpg

Lina
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 7:57 am
RDY wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:55 am
Hexsense wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:23 am
It's a thing for companies with actual local distribution networks. They make a deal with distributors on who sell and service which location. Having a random guy undercut everyone else mess up the system. So they make sure all bike can trace back to it's distributor who sell it. They treat bike not from authorized distributor as non warranty one to deter such grey market selling. That also ease local distributors from having to fix bike improperly assemble or service by unauthorized dealers.

Time, Lightweight etc. don't have their distribution network system to protect. So it's not applicable.
You're tip-toeing around what it really is. Price fixing.
the frames built in europe all have a guarantee vin up to a maximum of 5 years (bmc, scott ...). The frames that are built in China have a lifetime guarantee.
so cheap frames from china have a lifetime guarantee because they cost little and european frames only 5 years because they are expensive to build ...
I don't know about you but I'll buy a frame with 5 year guarantee that the brand really stands behind than something with a "lifetime" guarantee where you're lucky if they honor it after 3 years and you had to buy it from one of the shops that participate in their price fixing scheme.

Hell I'll rather take 2 year guarantee that they honor than one of those useless "lifetime" guarantees that aren't worth a thing. That means they'll replace the frame if the BB isn't up to standards from the factory or there are any other problems with the manufacturing. 2 years is plenty of time for any manufacturing errors to come up if you really ride your bike. And even if you don't ride your bike much what good is a "lifetime" guarantee where the manufacturer has defined "lifetime" as 5 to 10 years. They won't care that you personally have only ridden 5 000 km during that time because it's beyond the "lifetime" they have defined. Someone else might have put 40 000 km on a bike in 2 years but that frame would most likely still be covered by them, unless they decide that the clear manufacturing error isn't actually a manufacturing error or that the guarantee is null and void because you didn't have your bike serviced at the local racketeering shop.

ccparkhill
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:56 pm

by ccparkhill

incognitus wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 10:04 pm
floriansantana wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 9:32 pm
Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 am
who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?
What they said, virtually every frameset is made in Far East except a couple of Boutique manufacturers and maybe the very top end special frame sets of some brands (so basically none).

And Cannondales - as far as I know - are made in Taiwan.
Nope, the 2020 is made in China.

2020-Cannondale-SuperSix-Evo-16.jpg
My Rapha 2020 is made in Taiwan but my friend has the same frame yet his is made in China.

Wenne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:54 pm

by Wenne

ccparkhill wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 10:28 pm
incognitus wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 10:04 pm
floriansantana wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 9:32 pm
Wenne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 am
who has production in the usa or europe?
Trek in Usa .
Bmc + Scott in Europe .
Cannondale + ...in China .
and the others ?
What they said, virtually every frameset is made in Far East except a couple of Boutique manufacturers and maybe the very top end special frame sets of some brands (so basically none).

And Cannondales - as far as I know - are made in Taiwan.
Nope, the 2020 is made in China.

2020-Cannondale-SuperSix-Evo-16.jpg
My Rapha 2020 is made in Taiwan but my friend has the same frame yet his is made in China.
2021 made in china
EAD5FE4E-CD88-41AC-BA8E-DE45A73B744B.jpeg

tsikla2021
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:39 pm

by tsikla2021

Just got the 2021 "rainbow trout" Hi-mod aftermarket frame. Also made in China. But I have seen that the 2020 matte black/gold hi-mod frame was made in Taiwan.

by Weenie


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