Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
User avatar
themidge
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: underneath sweet Scottish rain

by themidge

I saw team EF's not-so-new-anymore Superixes the other week at the tour of Britain, and they look much better in person! The main thing I was interested in was the handlebar set-up they had going on, obviously there were no Knot bar/stem combos but I was still surprised by the range of set-ups.
There were a couple of the usual Vision Metron:
Image
But also two different kinds of FSA standard stem:
Image
Image
It's not looking good for the whole 'total system integration' thing :?. The mechanics have made a pretty good job of the cabling though, looks pretty clean with the cables sitting right under the stem.

As far as I could tell they were all on discs apart from Tanel Kangert who was on rim brakes.
Image
Image

My favourite part of the whole bike is the rear derailleur hanger:
Image
One of the bikes had a boring silver version, perhaps they ran out of replacement pink ones after a season's worth of crashes :D

bet1216
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:52 pm

by bet1216

hernejj wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:02 am
bet1216 wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:53 am
Why not a used Hollowgram set up that is native to the bb30 with a stages PM? You can find decent deals on the hollowgrams on ebay. The hollowgram bb30 set up will be lighter than that Ultegra and it won't require any adaptor.
Stages seems to only support Shimano for their dual sided power (a must for me). Also, a quick e-bay search shows no 50/34 options for hollowgram chainsets. Not sure if I can change the rings or not.
Power2Max and SRM both have spider based power meters that will provide both sides that are for the Hollowgrams. The chain rings are modular with those options also.

by Weenie


hernejj
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:27 pm

by hernejj

bet1216 wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:20 pm
hernejj wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:02 am
bet1216 wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:53 am
Why not a used Hollowgram set up that is native to the bb30 with a stages PM? You can find decent deals on the hollowgrams on ebay. The hollowgram bb30 set up will be lighter than that Ultegra and it won't require any adaptor.
Stages seems to only support Shimano for their dual sided power (a must for me). Also, a quick e-bay search shows no 50/34 options for hollowgram chainsets. Not sure if I can change the rings or not.
Power2Max and SRM both have spider based power meters that will provide both sides that are for the Hollowgrams. The chain rings are modular with those options also.
True :) I did look into this, it turns out they are heavier and pricier than a $160 ultegra crank, $50 BB and $750 4iiii precision pro factory install. But they are certainly an option if anyone want's to stick with the Hollowgram cranks. I'd be open to either, its really just a matter of weight and price for me.

Hexsense
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Are you locked into Speedplay or certain pedals?
If not, Favero Assioma dual's only down side vs crank based PM is that it is still have taller stack height than Dura-ace and Speedplay pedals. Its stack height is just about typical thickness of other Look pedal.

hernejj
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:27 pm

by hernejj

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:12 pm
Are you locked into Speedplay or certain pedals?
If not, Favero Assioma dual's only down side vs crank based PM is that it is still have taller stack height than Dura-ace and Speedplay pedals. Its stack height is just about typical thickness of other Look pedal.
Yea, I have quite an investment in SPD equipment right now. Most serious roadies will probably raise an eyebrow over that :). I've been considering a switch to Speedplay, but with how much I'd had to spend to convert this new SuperSix plus two other bikes, and new shoes, it is just not realistic to make the switch right now. Also, the pedal based power meters are $1,000, whereas the 4iiii is $750 + crank. And a benefit of changing the stock cranks out for Ultegra is more weight saved (and still running nice light ledals). I'm not sure how much though... I'm assuming the stock chainset weights around 750g. I know the ultegra 50/34 is 674g and Ultegra 52/36 is 681. If anyone knows the actual weight of the Cannondale 1 crankset, please share. I can never seem to find any info (manuals, product pages, where to buy, etc) for most Cannondale stock componentry.

I'm not 100% tied to the 4iiii on Ultegra but it really does seem to be the best option when comparing cost and weight. In any case, I'm very happy to know about all of these alternatives :). Thanks!!

Hexsense
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Look at Favero Assioma duo's price again.
$628 for two sided power pedals.
https://cycling.favero.com/shop/dual-si ... ssioma-duo

It weight about the same as Shimano 105 pedals. Extra weight saving is from changing from MTB shoes to road shoes. And since you are on SPD, changing to Assioma then doesn't raise your seat height. Their cleats is regular Look style.

Compare to ($750 stages + $160 Ultegra crank) which would be $910.
For the same price you can get Favero Assioma pedal, and also Sram RED BB30 crankset (remove left side's adjustment ring but install wavy washer and it'll fit PF30a too).
Sram Red bb30 with praxis rings are less than 500g total (about 530g total if you stick with Sram rings).
PS. new batch of Sram RED crank can weight a bit more as they reinforce the crank to be even stronger than older batches. So it is a good reason to buy used one, in hope that it may be older batch which weight less.

hernejj
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:27 pm

by hernejj

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:29 pm
Look at Favero Assioma duo's price again.
$628 for two sided power pedals.
https://cycling.favero.com/shop/dual-si ... ssioma-duo

It weight about the same as Shimano 105 pedals. Extra weight saving is from changing from MTB shoes to road shoes. And since you are on SPD, changing to Assioma then doesn't raise your seat height. Their cleats is regular Look style.

Compare to ($750 stages + $160 Ultegra crank) which would be $910.
For the same price you can get Favero Assioma pedal, and also Sram RED BB30 crankset (remove left side's adjustment ring but install wavy washer and it'll fit PF30a too).
Sram Red bb30 with praxis rings are less than 500g total (about 530g total if you stick with Sram rings).
PS. new batch of Sram RED crank can weight a bit more as they reinforce the crank to be even stronger than older batches. So it is a good reason to buy used one, in hope that it may be older batch which weight less.
WOW!!! You're right! I did not know the Assioma's were only $628!! They are only 50 grams heavier than my current pedals. And a $100 pair of Shimano shoes (picked somewhat randomly) weight 200g less than my current road shoes! Overall, when considering pedals, cleats and shoes I can drop about 220g AND save $90. And that is sticking with the Ultegra cranks :-D.

Thanks for point this out. I'll have to see if I can wrap my brain around the thought of switching to Look Keo pedals though... they were not even on my list of new pedal platforms to consider. I was sure I was gong to speed play....

Hexsense
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

IMO:
Upgrade to Sram RED bb30 crank is a better choice than only to Ultegra. Ultegra is only a baby step up from (or actually even heavier than) Cannondale's original crank.

Ultegra crank weight: 674g+ adapter or new bb weight -> so around 725g?
Ultegra crank price: $160 + price of adapter or new BB

Sram Red BB30 weight: 530g net (Sram ring, can weight less with Praxis rings), no adapter or new bb weight.
Sram Red BB30 price: used price anywhere between $100 to $350, no additional cost for BB or adapter

The catch is, Sram Red BB30 only fit BB30 and PF30 frame natively. It doesn't work on BB386, BB86 etc.
BB30a, and PF30a (which your frame is) are supported with removal of preload ring (and install wavy washer instead) viewtopic.php?t=143617

Discodan
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

slashy wrote:I did not actually try it , I can tell you the lock ring is identical . I'm 99% sure it works. the imprint on the crank also seems identical.
99% is good enough for me, thanks for that. I’ll get them and see how it goes. They will be a bit heavier than the KForce but classic cannondale aesthetics


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ch00bzs
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:49 pm

by ch00bzs

themidge wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:42 pm
I saw team EF's not-so-new-anymore Superixes the other week at the tour of Britain, and they look much better in person! The main thing I was interested in was the handlebar set-up they had going on, obviously there were no Knot bar/stem combos but I was still surprised by the range of set-ups.
There were a couple of the usual Vision Metron:
Image
But also two different kinds of FSA standard stem:
Image
Image
It's not looking good for the whole 'total system integration' thing :?. The mechanics have made a pretty good job of the cabling though, looks pretty clean with the cables sitting right under the stem.

As far as I could tell they were all on discs apart from Tanel Kangert who was on rim brakes.
Image
Image

My favourite part of the whole bike is the rear derailleur hanger:
Image
One of the bikes had a boring silver version, perhaps they ran out of replacement pink ones after a season's worth of crashes :D
interesting that they use normal headset cap instead of this
Image

sucks that cannondale doesnt offer that direct mount derailleur hanger

S6ED
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

[/quote]

interesting that they use normal headset cap instead of this
Image

sucks that cannondale doesnt offer that direct mount derailleur hanger
[/quote]

So what is the height of the upper (in the red circle) proprietary headset cap? 5mm?

Macallan
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:21 pm

by Macallan

Hi!
First forum post :-)

I’ve got a SS Evo Carbon Disc Ultegra size 62 on order, due to be delivered in a week from now (hopefully, at last, it took >2months!!)
Read through this thread and learned a lot about possible upgrades, replacement parts etc. & admired all the nice custom builds.
Some things I’m considering to replace more or less right away:

* Seat post: Replace Alu with Carbon, should save around 100g according to the CAAD13 thread. Hopefully I can get the bike shop to replace it directly for some extra charge.
* Saddle: The bike shop will offer various replacement saddles as part of the bike fitting process, hoping that the best fitting one is also a bit lighter.
* Crankset: Thinking about a Hollowgram Si crankset with 8-arm spidering to replace the “Cannondale 1 with FSA rings” .Is “Cannondale 1” the same as the non-Hollowgram Si crank? Will the Hollowgram Si crank (spec’ed for BB30 I think) fit on the BB30a?
* Bar/Stem: Will probably leave the stock config for now, although the shop might fit a different stem for me. Has anyone weighed the “Cannondale 2” bar?

By the way, there is a test of SS Evo3 (HM DuraAce Di2 model of course), and CAAD13, in the October TOUR magazine- they quite like the SS! Let me know and I can post some of their measurement data etc.

S6ED
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

Anyone knows the product number of the "team" hi-mod frameset in size 54?
Attachments
C20_C11370M_003_2048x2048.png

bibirider8
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:28 pm

by bibirider8

hernejj wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:26 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:12 pm
Are you locked into Speedplay or certain pedals?
If anyone knows the actual weight of the Cannondale 1 crankset, please share. I can never seem to find any info (manuals, product pages, where to buy, etc) for most Cannondale stock componentry.

I'm not 100% tied to the 4iiii on Ultegra but it really does seem to be the best option when comparing cost and weight. In any case, I'm very happy to know about all of these alternatives :). Thanks!!
800gr for the Cannondale crankset 1 compact 50/34
Attachments
IMG_20190509_153944.jpg

by Weenie


hernejj
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:27 pm

by hernejj

bibirider8 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:34 pm
800gr for the Cannondale crankset 1 compact 50/34
Cool, thanks!! Even more weight saved than I expected. I'll post my prospective build at some point. I have a few major details to nail down first.

I have a set of Look pedals on order. If I like the look platform I *may* opt for the Faveo Assioma power meter which will give me far greater flexibility on the cranks than going with 4iiii.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post