Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
aeroisnteverything
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

sohn wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:02 pm
Hi all.

I've been following this thread since annoucement and finally picked up a rim brake Ultegra version of the Supersix Evo a couple of days ago.

Given that the rim brake version was £700 cheaper than the disc brake version, I thought the weight + money savings were outweighed the better braking performance (plus I prefer the traditional stem/bar look...)

The bike itself was surprisingly heavy however - weighing in at 8.14kg with bottle cages (56g for the pair) and Ultegra pedals (around 250g for the pair). I think this is due to the wheels, alloy seatpost, Prologo saddle, FSA chain rings + non-Hollowgram cranks and the stock alloy stem + handlebars.

So I'm planning to upgrade all of these parts to drop the weight over the next few months - any recommendations would be welcome.

Pic below.
I gotta say, when I see that 8.14 kg for a stock bike for 2300 quid.... this is where I scratch my head and wonder why people don't just buy a canyon that comes out around 700g lighter for the same money and with Di2 (CF SL 8.0 di2 model), or at the similar weight and Ultegra mechanical but with discs (CF SL Disc 8.0 model)... :noidea:

sgtrobo
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:36 am

by sgtrobo

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:07 am
I gotta say, when I see that 8.14 kg for a stock bike for 2300 quid.... this is where I scratch my head and wonder why people don't just buy a canyon that comes out around 700g lighter for the same money and with Di2 (CF SL 8.0 di2 model), or at the similar weight and Ultegra mechanical but with discs (CF SL Disc 8.0 model)... :noidea:
only reason I don't go with a Canyon is because I get everything from my LBS, and the types of deals they give me on parts as well as labor (as well as excellent service), is what keeps me going back to them

by Weenie


Jugi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi


aeroisnteverything wrote: I gotta say, when I see that 8.14 kg for a stock bike for 2300 quid.... this is where I scratch my head and wonder why people don't just buy a canyon that comes out around 700g lighter for the same money and with Di2 (CF SL 8.0 di2 model), or at the similar weight and Ultegra mechanical but with discs (CF SL Disc 8.0 model)... :noidea:
Some people prefer Cannondales over Canyons. For somebody who pays attention to kg/$ ratio, Canyon is usually one of the best picks. And that's just fine. Cannondale may offer other features worth paying for.

refthimos
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:07 am
I gotta say, when I see that 8.14 kg for a stock bike for 2300 quid.... this is where I scratch my head and wonder why people don't just buy a canyon that comes out around 700g lighter for the same money and with Di2 (CF SL 8.0 di2 model), or at the similar weight and Ultegra mechanical but with discs (CF SL Disc 8.0 model)... :noidea:
Our team is sponsored by Cannondale and we get our bikes through our LBS sponsor. They've both supported me very well over the years and so it's the least I can do to support them in return. I've been very happy with all the Cannondales I've purchased, so much so that when I decided to make the switch to road disc last year, I couldn't bear to give up my 2015 EVO1.

I wouldn't say everything is perfect on the new EVO3, but with a couple tweaks I'm confident I will have a great bike. Even if I was open to a Canyon, the CF SL Disc has exposed cable routing - with all the new "light aero" bikes (including the EVO3) featuring clean front ends, those exposed cables a deal killer for me. YMMV of course.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.35kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg SEE CLASSIFIEDS
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

refthimos wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:55 pm
aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:07 am
I gotta say, when I see that 8.14 kg for a stock bike for 2300 quid.... this is where I scratch my head and wonder why people don't just buy a canyon that comes out around 700g lighter for the same money and with Di2 (CF SL 8.0 di2 model), or at the similar weight and Ultegra mechanical but with discs (CF SL Disc 8.0 model)... :noidea:
Our team is sponsored by Cannondale and we get our bikes through our LBS sponsor. They've both supported me very well over the years and so it's the least I can do to support them in return. I've been very happy with all the Cannondales I've purchased, so much so that when I decided to make the switch to road disc last year, I couldn't bear to give up my 2015 EVO1.

I wouldn't say everything is perfect on the new EVO3, but with a couple tweaks I'm confident I will have a great bike. Even if I was open to a Canyon, the CF SL Disc has exposed cable routing - with all the new "light aero" bikes (including the EVO3) featuring clean front ends, those exposed cables a deal killer for me. YMMV of course.
Your reasons are of course perfectly valid - sponsorship is a huge factor. Plus I was more looking at the specific consumer driven choice of a GBP 2300 bike which in its rim brake guise also has exposed cables, just like canyon, and on top of that a round handlebar/normal stem combo.

The question is really mostly rhetorical anyway. While there are many with valid reasons, preferences, etc. that will choose a C-dale due to their specific circumstances - I would argue that if a discerning consumer with no ex-ante predefenrece between the brands compares those two specific bike models, then, objectively, at that price bracket Canyon is the clear winner. So it's really a question for how C-dale had gone wrong to produce and market a model with that sort of a weight penalty (and no other clear advantages) over competition?

floriansantana
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

refthimos wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:44 am
2. Which front end to use. Currently leaning towards Wilier Alabarda, for no real reason other than I think it's looks cooler than the Vision Metron. But whatever front end I choose, it has to route the cables all the way to in front of the head tube, that's a must for me.
I just ordered a classic bar and stem combo from 3T (Apto stem and Superergo handlebars) because they are light, classic shape and have internal cable routing. When I'm finished building the bike I'll show it to you if you want.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:51 pm
Your reasons are of course perfectly valid - sponsorship is a huge factor. Plus I was more looking at the specific consumer driven choice of a GBP 2300 bike which in its rim brake guise also has exposed cables, just like canyon, and on top of that a round handlebar/normal stem combo.

The question is really mostly rhetorical anyway. While there are many with valid reasons, preferences, etc. that will choose a C-dale due to their specific circumstances - I would argue that if a discerning consumer with no ex-ante predefenrece between the brands compares those two specific bike models, then, objectively, at that price bracket Canyon is the clear winner. So it's really a question for how C-dale had gone wrong to produce and market a model with that sort of a weight penalty (and no other clear advantages) over competition?
Sponsorship is a good reason, and there are probably a lot other good reasons. However ... Suppose you are like me, wanting to switch to a disc setup, and while at it to Di2. The cheapest setup is $7800 more or less. For that I get a hideous color, a 105 cassette (no kidding), a power meter that I don't want (just make the 10 arm spider an option, please), and wheels that I don't trust after the 35mm Hollowgram Si disaster. Cannondale used to be attractive, as you could pick a reasonable budget build as a starting point, and then get the proper bits. Given that they moved this starting point upwards, it becomes uneconomical. This is why the idea of "why not canyon" is reasonable.

Now for $7800 I can build up a Colnago V2-R, or for $8500 a Colnago V3RS (Fulcrum wheels, Ultegra Di2), with the components that I really want (Saddle, Tires, Tubes ....). So why again would I want to buy a EVO 3, and spend more ?

robeambro
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Not many bikes nowadays come perfect out-of-the-box. The SuperSix for example comes with a boat anchor of a cockpit (which also doubles down on ugliness, but that's personal). This can be corrected, but at a huge cost. Power Metre may also be not useful and add weight. For the cassette whatever, you can wait for it to wear down, put it on your commuter bike, on your turbo trainer..

In other words, I think the SuperSix can be a great bike, but it requires plenty of work and money to get there. If you can and want, that's great. Otherwise, if you have no attachment to the brand and there's another bike bike - like the Colnagos you mentioned - that come closer to your required configuration, then you're surely much better off buying those.

GrumpyOldPizza
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 pm

by GrumpyOldPizza

robeambro wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm
In other words, I think the SuperSix can be a great bike, but it requires plenty of work and money to get there. If you can and want, that's great. Otherwise, if you have no attachment to the brand and there's another bike bike - like the Colnagos you mentioned - that come closer to your required configuration, then you're surely much better off buying those.
"Requires plenty of work and money to get there" ... That is kind of my key issue. For the EVO 3 make sense (aero is the driving point) you need aero wheels, Di2 and disc brakes. If that price point is already up there with $7800 and then you have to switch out expensive pieces, it does not seem to make sense to me.

I have been attached to the Cannondale brand / SuperSix EVO 2, because the geometry works for me (even that seems to be gone for the EVO 3), and in general it seemed to be a more engineering driven setup say than some of the Italian boutique brands.

Sorry to have mentioned the V3RS here. I was just really surprised about some of the engineering choices they have made, which seem to me the right direction where I feel Cannondale went into wrong direction.

Perhaps things change after a while (customers will drive that), and/or we'll see a decent frameset only option with cool colors and an affordable baseline kit.

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:01 pm
Sorry to have mentioned the V3RS here. I was just really surprised about some of the engineering choices they have made, which seem to me the right direction where I feel Cannondale went into wrong direction.
I don't know why you apologize - it's exactly the right contrast, and I, for one, fully share the sentiment. Brand loyalty or not, I'd like to reward manufacturers for making smart engineering/componentry choices.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Finally a computer mount option for the SystemSix and new Evo's KNOT stems that is bolted underneath from Raceware Direct.

For Garmin
For Wahoo

Image
Image
Last edited by Dan Gerous on Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clanke01
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:56 am

by clanke01

I haven't found this information anywhere, so I figured I could ask here.

Any information on whether the frames are Di2 compatible like the Evo2 frame sets? I was thinking of transferring my di2 group set to maybe the 105 frameset and building it to my specs.

Much appreciated.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

clanke01 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:06 pm
I haven't found this information anywhere, so I figured I could ask here.

Any information on whether the frames are Di2 compatible like the Evo2 frame sets? I was thinking of transferring my di2 group set to maybe the 105 frameset and building it to my specs.

Much appreciated.
Yes, all frames are compatible with every types of groupsets: Di2 compatible, mechanical compatible and eTAP compatible (duh!). There is three switchplates in case you change groupset. A Di2 that can hold a bar end junction box, one for mechanical with derailleur cable stops and a blank for eTAP.

Karvalo
Posts: 757
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

GrumpyOldPizza wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 pm
Now for $7800 I can build up a Colnago V2-R, or for $8500 a Colnago V3RS (Fulcrum wheels, Ultegra Di2), with the components that I really want (Saddle, Tires, Tubes ....). So why again would I want to buy a EVO 3, and spend more ?
Apples for apples - the Evo3 frameset will be available in January at £1000 cheaper than the V3R. So why again wouldn't you want to buy an Evo 3, and spend less? :wink:

by Weenie


murphyy12
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 3:26 am

by murphyy12

clanke01 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:06 pm
I haven't found this information anywhere, so I figured I could ask here.

Any information on whether the frames are Di2 compatible like the Evo2 frame sets? I was thinking of transferring my di2 group set to maybe the 105 frameset and building it to my specs.

Much appreciated.
Yes frames Di2 compatible. I purchased the 105 disc and will be replacing the stock 105 with my Ultegra Di2. Bike should arrive in a few days!

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