Imaking20's Bike Shootout: Wilier, Dogma and Mosaic

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Imaking20
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

So I intentionally went from one bike back to two and then accidentally three. Only two can stay, so I figure why not make a thing out of the comparison?

The Wilier. Sitting as my second most successful bike - at least in terms of how many miles I've put on (the count which is now 20+). I love this bike. It's the most comfortable aero bike I've ridden and the handling still surprises me often (in a good way). There have been a few times on fast, familiar descents that I thought I got it wrong - only to look back and the ride data and see that I was just travelling several MPH faster than I ever had previously.

Image

What I love:
  • -It's fast
    -It's comfortable
    -Handling is outstanding
Why look for a mistress?
  • -I wanted something I'd be happy to ride on "mellow" days
I started looking for a second bike that would be nice to ride and not feel compelled to smash everywhere on. On the Wilier, I feel obliged to basically ride 21-23mph everywhere I can... which the wife doesn't appreciate on our coffee rides :)


Enter the Dogma. My first ride on this, I actually got off the bike 3x to see if the back tire was flat as the rear end is so compliant. I'm only about 400 miles into this bike but I've enjoyed the heck out of it and enjoy the look of it more every day (bordering on obsession).

Image

What I love:
  • -It's super comfortable. Top 3 I've ridden.
    -Handling is also great
    -LOVE the traditional-ish geometry and level TT
Why look for a mistress?
  • -I didn't mean to! I was shopping for wheels!
The Mosaic. Caley Fretz's RT1 is probably the bike that kicked off my interest in titanium. I've dreamt of a custom ti bike with integrated seat mast for years as my real "one bike to rule them all." Even as I'd settled in happily with the Wilier, I always told myself that if I found one secondhand that had a reasonable shot of fitting - I'd own it. Fortunately, that time came when I was back to being OK with two bikes. Less fortunate that I happened to have two bikes that I was really pleased with. So what to do? Compare them all and winner has to find a new home!

Since the Mosaic is just a guest/experiment, it's not getting built up properly. Instead, I'm using parts I've got around (group, wheels, bars) and ordered the basic missing pieces to get the bike assembled (like the Ritchey topper). For this bike to unseat the Dogma, it's going to need to beat it in handling and comfort. If it's able to do that, I'll actually do the build how I'd see it ideally (which also means sub 6kg!)

Image

All of my riding over the next few weeks will be on the same saddle, wheels, tires and pressure. I'm going to start by spending a little time with the Mosaic to get acquainted and then I've got a few roads and sections of roads that I conside3r to be benchmarks for certain things. Such as:
  • -A section of road between my town and one to the west. You're coming down a very smooth section of asphalt and as you start to head downhill and have to make a very sharp, off-camber turn - you can't quite see that the section of road that turns your bike into a jackhammer. It's not the most beat up road around (actually, it stands out because you just don't expect it by looking at it) but I almost always go over that thing wishing the bike was smoother
    -One very technical 1.85 mile descent right by my house. It's wooded which means there are often wet spots, leaves, or gravel on the road. With any of these - you don't have a chance at taking the crown on this descent. There's enough tree canopy that Garmin often doesn't follow the road - which doesn't help things. I'm quite confident in my handling ability - and this is the only descent I can think of that I've honestly tried (and tried) to KOM and haven't been able to. Still sitting 4s off the top.
    -One up and over. There's a small "mountain" range to the west of my that's got a nice 2.8 mile climb that's all over the place in pitch. Going down the back side of it is some quality broken pavement followed by another fast descent. I plan to hit this on all backs bike to back - over and back (as descending that 2.8 mile climb is one of my favorites)
Last edited by Imaking20 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Current:
Wilier Wonka | The Dentist | The Bucket List

Retired:
Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 NERO | 2014 S-Works Tarmac | S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento Uno SL | Tarmac SL2

by Weenie


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dgasmd
Posts: 1668
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:10 am
Location: South Florida

by dgasmd

Gorgeous bikes to say the least.

Just for the sake of curiosity. How do manage 2 bikes with different drivetrain (Campy vs Chitmano)?? I will assume you have dedicated wheels for each bike and do not swap them between the 2. Why even bother with 2 different brands in the first place?

Imaking20
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

I'll admit it's a bit of a struggle going from perfect shifting to riding Campy - which is why I'd picked up another 9150 group to put on the Dogma.

No dedicated wheels. The wheels all swap between bikes without issue. All are running SRAM cassettes except the Nemesis which have a Campy FH
Current:
Wilier Wonka | The Dentist | The Bucket List

Retired:
Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 NERO | 2014 S-Works Tarmac | S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento Uno SL | Tarmac SL2

RocketRacing
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I apologize if this offends, and my opinion means little to others beyond myself.... but the wavy design on the dogma offends my eyes. Call me shallow, but that is the bike I would drop, purely on looks.

Js2
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm

by Js2

RocketRacing wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:52 am
I apologize if this offends, and my opinion means little to others beyond myself.... but the wavy design on the dogma offends my eyes. Call me shallow, but that is the bike I would drop, purely on looks.
actually, it reminds of a botch photoshop job on the fork and seat stays... :mrgreen:

KarlC
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

Cool thread, looking forward to the end results but I have no Dog in this fight, not yet.

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Calnago
Posts: 7991
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Even though I’ve never been a big fan of the curvy Onda stays, I do like the simple white/black tonal qualities and basic (sort of) traditional lines of the frame. In contrast, dropped seatstays make me ill, especially when they’re coupled with rim brakes since they wreak havoc on obtaining a nice smooth line of the brake housing from the top tube to the calipers themselves. My vote is to keep the Pinarello.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2218
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I predict the Mosaic will lose on ride quality alone. The ISP on the Mosaic just screams a harsh ride! In my own experience a skinny 27.2mm seatpost with setback gives a velvety ride.

IMHO a non-racy Ti bike for those mellow days should have a sloping TT which allows a longer exposed seatpost. Coupled with a skinny 27.2mm setback post will bring out the best qualities of a Ti bike.


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mattyNor
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:18 pm

by mattyNor

It's not really a fair test to compare a custom bike built for someone else as a true representation of how it could ride. If you did an RT-1 for yourself you could copy the geo of the Wilier to match the handling aspects you love about it. Then depending on tube selection you can tune the ride to be however how want it to be, within limitations of the frame materials.

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dudemanppl
Posts: 902
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

by dudemanppl

Bye Mosaic. Custom bikes not built for you are generally bad. The front end is a good amount taller than your other bikes.

tonytourist
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:13 am
Location: 93306

by tonytourist

How many outdoor miles have you put on the Wilier?

beeatnik
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:26 pm

by beeatnik

What does it mean to have a mistress...in 2019?

Wiliers are underappreciated.

XCProMD
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Willier. I enjoy one, it got many km too. Difficult to beat.

I’d slap the Campag on it, mine has the previous gen Record 11s

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2687
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

What kind of wheels do you have in the garage?
I think it's interesting with wheel match to bike. A plush bike marries well with stiffer wheels, while a stiff frame might feel better with wheels not über stiff.

Same with a super fast steering bike, i think they feel more affected (cross winds) by deeper aero wheels.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

eric01
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

Got any pics of the mosaic?
AX Lightness Vial Evo, Carl Strong Titanium

by Weenie


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