power2max on Ultegra drivetrain

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

Hi All Weenies,

I'm thinking of jumping into the wonderful world of powermeters, and I set my eyes on the power2max range as they seem to be good value for the price. As of today, p2m offers 3 products, 2 being affordable, that is the NGeco and Type S. My bike is a Canyon Endurace CF SL 8.0 from 2018, which comes in full Shimano Ultegra 8000. The compatible spiders (without changing the BB) are the Rotor options in 24mm. That's either the 3D for Type S or ALDHU (or 3D) for NGeco. Now the 3D cranks are specked to have a 45mm chainline where ALDHU is 43.5mm, exactly the same as Shimano RC8000 cranks. P2M states that both are completly compatible with Shimano Hollowtech II drivetrain. I want to reuse the Ultegra cranks and put them on my winter bike, so that's part of the equation. Type S are sold with chainrings, so I can move the whole older crankset to my winter bike, NGeco comes with the spider and arms only, so I have to buy an extra pair of rings.

In terms of price, I get:
Type S: 680€ with 3D24 cranks + chainrings + crank tool
NGeco: 690€ with ALDHU + 55€ for 105 chainrings + optional 50€ for firmware update to get L/R balance = 645+ €

So the newer NGeco is clearly more expensive than the older Type S, but is it really worth it? I like the idea that ALDHU is more recent and matches perfectly (on the spec sheet) Shimano's components, but isn't it a bit overprized? Also, NGeco requires me to buy some extra chainrings, which would be 105 rather than Ultegra for budget reasons (I put the current Ultegra rings on the p2m and the 105 on the existing Ultegra arms for the winter bike). In terms of weight, I believe the difference is really marginal. I can live without BLE as my headunit is a Wahoo (and I don't plan to forget it anymore for my futur sportives). Both meters have the same accuracy, so what does a more modern build bring?

Any feedback that could help me balance the decision would be highly apreciated.
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

by Weenie


rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

in terms of weight (sourced from p2m):

NGeco + ALDHU: 658g
Type S + 3D24: 653g
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

jfranci3
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

I think the Type S does LR balance out of the box, but I wouldnt pay for it. I think the NGEco has a slightly better battery cover for CX/Gravel use. Otherwise, there’s not much difference.

I had the model prior to the S, the Classic, and went to the NGEco. The differences were battery compartment, I lost L/R balance, and Bluetooth.

I’d get the 3D Rotor crank for the flexibility, as you can get a 110 or 130 trad spider for it. The newer unit is all specific direct mount or specific 4bolt. The Aldhu is better for Q rings. If you get the 3D, make sure the chainring doesn’t wobble once everything is mounted - there are some bad cranks.

rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

Thanks jfranci3.

Indeed, there does not seem to be many differences. From what the reviews say, the cover from the NGeco seems to fall easily when not mounted perfectly, where the one from the type S is bolted in (therefore safer). It's true that the L/R balance matters little.

As for the cranks, I have the feeling that the 3D24 are being discontinued. They are listed as 2017 range on the Rotor website. I can still find a 110 spiders compatible with them on some webshops, but what if I wanna reuse them in a few years when it cannot be found anymore? On the other hand, the Aldhu is more recent, so all spiders and/or direct mount rings should be available on the market for some time.

In short, newer (more expensive) ALDHU alternative is 100% compatible with Shimano 4 bolt system, so whatever the rings, they could be swapped from one to the other.
Older 3D24 means having more standard but non-Shimano compatible rings.
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

jfranci3
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

In my experience, the LR always read 49/51. I think its more of a measure of how straight your seat is and how often you jump out of the saddle with the same leg more than actual fitness in this application.

Another consideration - the rotor Aldhu uses the same interface for both the 24 and 30 spindles while the 3Ds use different. THe world is going 3d and that PM will last 10+ years. The 3d24 is common enough, but not nearly as common as the 3d30

marioc
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:26 pm

by marioc

With Power2Max NG Eco 110-S you can reuse existing Ultegra chainrings. I have Canyon Endurace also, and a word of advice, if you can, avoid using 30mm axle cranksets in BB86 bottom bracket.

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

I just picked up a P2M for my Aeroad with Ultegra R8000. I went with the 3D24 crank and NGeco with Praxis chainrings. Runs great so far and it was a direct swap with my Ultegra crank. Pull out old crank, slap in new one, go ride. I liked it enough that I just bought another P2M for my new race bike, this time the 3D+ crankset because I'm replacing a BB30 Sram Red crank.

Yes, the ALDHU is the newest Rotor crank, but the setup was $200 more for hardly any benefit, maybe a few grams of weight saved. The main benefit of the ALDHU is the indexing when using oval chainrings, which I'm guessing you aren't doing.

The Type S powermeter is old and probably not supported anymore, so you better be getting a huge deal on it over the NGeco. If you are just getting into power meters, I highly doubt you really need to pay extra for L/R support.
jfranci3 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:22 pm
I’d get the 3D Rotor crank for the flexibility, as you can get a 110 or 130 trad spider for it. The newer unit is all specific direct mount or specific 4bolt. The Aldhu is better for Q rings. If you get the 3D, make sure the chainring doesn’t wobble once everything is mounted - there are some bad cranks.
The powermeter in this case IS the spider, so you cannot switch back and forth from 110 to 130 BCD. But if you buy the shimano version like he's talking about, you can use shimano rings with either BCD.

rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

Thanks Marioc, indeed, one of the criteria is to NOT change my BB, therefore stick with a 24mm compatible crankset. If I go for the older 3D24 it's fine, but I don't think I'll be able to reuse the cranks if I change my bike for something else than a 24mm BB.
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

dcorn wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:35 pm
Yes, the ALDHU is the newest Rotor crank, but the setup was $200 more for hardly any benefit, maybe a few grams of weight saved. The main benefit of the ALDHU is the indexing when using oval chainrings, which I'm guessing you aren't doing.
That's the problem, the deal is that for 680€, you get the older Type S with chainrings, so just like you, swap'n'ride. Going for the newer NGeco with 3D24 is only 640€, but you must add the special tool (+30€) and there are no chainrings included (a standard Praxis set is 100€) and only comes in 110 5 bolts (not compatible with Shimano). The ALDHU option is 690€, so only 10€ more for much better compatibility (110-4s, later 30mm axle compat), no rings either, but I get to keep my Ultegra ones (and just buy a set of 105 for my winter bike for less than 60€).

I guess it really falls down to how likely am I planning to change the bike in the future, and whether or not I'll want to keep the powermeter. If so, I'd rather add a few bucks and stay on the safe side. As you all mention, power balance should really not make a difference.
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

EDIT: OK, so P2M has a separate site for the US and I just realized it has different options. The US site lets you buy the NGeco with either 130 BCD, 110 BCD, or the 4-bolt shimano ring pattern and the world site only lets you buy 110 BCD. Not sure why that is, but it explains our misunderstanding here. Maybe you can get the NGeco for 4-bolt shimano from the US site?

I got the special Rotor tool and didn't need it. I didn't pay for the factory assembly, but the powermeter and rings came assembled to the crank. Really not sure what I'd use the tool for since the P2M will only fit on a specific crankset.

So yeah, if you think you'd eventually swap out to a BB30 crankset, I guess go with the ALDHU. But you can get adapters in the future for basically any BB to convert to a 24mm spindle. I'd spend that money later if you need to, instead of now when you might not have to. But clearly it's your call. :-)

rwanou
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

by rwanou

I'll buy from EU shop, can't afford the custom taxes (they hit hard, trust me).
dcorn wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:24 pm
EDIT: OK, so P2M has a separate site for the US and I just realized it has different options. The US site lets you buy the NGeco with either 130 BCD, 110 BCD, or the 4-bolt shimano ring pattern and the world site only lets you buy 110 BCD. Not sure why that is, but it explains our misunderstanding here. Maybe you can get the NGeco for 4-bolt shimano from the US site?
Well for the NGeco, depending on the type of cranks, the options vary from 110 only to the full range (130/110/110-4s). Maybe it can change depending on product availability.
dcorn wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:24 pm
I got the special Rotor tool and didn't need it. I didn't pay for the factory assembly, but the powermeter and rings came assembled to the crank. Really not sure what I'd use the tool for since the P2M will only fit on a specific crankset.
How do you bolt the cranks then? I guess the spider came in mounted on the axle then. If this is the only use for the tool, then I can live without.
Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0 SL / Triban RC 520

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

rwanou wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm
Well for the NGeco, depending on the type of cranks, the options vary from 110 only to the full range (130/110/110-4s). Maybe it can change depending on product availability.

How do you bolt the cranks then? I guess the spider came in mounted on the axle then. If this is the only use for the tool, then I can live without.
Yes, I think BCD options depend on which crank you are buying. On the world site, the NGeco for ALDHU24 comes in all 3 options of BCD, but the 3D24 only comes in 110. Possible they are sold out of the others?

When I received mine, the P2M spider was already attached to the axle/driveside of the crank. The special tool is used here, but mine was already done.

My new crankset is coming today, I'll let you know if that was is installed as well. I paid for assembly on this one though.

jfranci3
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

dcorn wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:35 pm


The powermeter in this case IS the spider, so you cannot switch back and forth from 110 to 130 BCD. But if you buy the shimano version like he's talking about, you can use shimano rings with either BCD.
I was saying that if you have a fringe case where you want to put use the same PM for two different bikes, you can mount a $45 spider on the second crank. You remove the lockring on the crankset, and the PM slides off. Say you've got a TT bike with big rings and short crank arms or your spouse/buddy wants to run it, you can move the PM between the two cranksets.

jfranci3
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

rwanou wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm

How do you bolt the cranks then? I guess the spider came in mounted on the axle then. If this is the only use for the tool, then I can live without.
Call around you. If there is a Rotor dealer, a good TT shop, or a Cervelo dealer nearby, you can do without the tool. You only need it to change rings in some cases. You can buy the tool from ebay for $40 (get the Enduro tool, not the Rotor / P2M tool).

by Weenie


dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

I think the tool is specific to Rotor, not P2M. And it's only 30 bucks for a really nice metal tool.

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