2019 Sram Force ETAP

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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Alexbn921
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

Loud rear brake is most likely a resonance issue. First take out the pads and clean them with alcohol. Then clean the rotors with alcohol too. Next bed them in evenly.
If that doesn’t fix your issue, then securing the hose with a zip tie can mitigate the vibration. Beyond that you will need to add dyno mat to spider or stick on weights to the stays to change the vibration characteristics of the frame. Also, a stiffer mount or better fitting interface can help.

by Weenie


SandwichNP
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:22 pm

by SandwichNP

Thanks, I was thinking alcohol clean first. It seems to get worse when I get back from the ride compared to when I leave, so my thought was some kind of grime build-up, but that seems unreasonable as I pretty much only ride in the sunshine.

revkev
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:51 am

by revkev

RE: Noisy Drivetrain

I recently bought a Canyon Ultimate with SRAM Force eTap AXS (not that it matters but I always have to google the capitalization and word order for this groupset haha... I should just be okay with getting it slightly off). Like many others, I did notice that it seemed to be a bit noisy - kind of reminded me of what you hear when your chain / drivetrain needs to be degreased and re-lubricated. So I did that after a few rides - and it still sounded basically the same.

I would not say I have a solution or a fix exactly - but I did spend some time trying to work it out and reduce the noise and I think I may have made some progress toward a quieter drivetrain - and without swapping in any Red components (which does seem to have legitimately helped others but is, in my opinion, not exactly a solution or a fix - it's just a replacement part - although, admittedly, its nice that it doesn't require a completely new groupset).

My setup:
Bike: Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc 8.0 SL (also have to look this up to get it right!)
Size: XS
Chainrings: 48/35
Crank Arms: 170mm
Cassette: 10-28 - It appears that there are 3 dampening rings or whatever between the 4 smallest cogs which I believe was an update by SRAM to the Froce Cassettes.
Distance on bike: 330 miles / 530 kilometers
I basically haven't changed anything from how Canyon sends them out besides adding pedals and bottle cages and swapping in latex tubes.

What I did:
1. Detailed the chain and cassette -- completely removed them, degreased them, scrubbed them down, rinsed them, dried them.
2. Degreased large chain ring -- didn't remove it or anything - just used a cloth to clean it up. Didn't even try to clean the small ring.
3. Shortened the chain -- SRAM says in a YouTube video (linked below) that the correct chain length should be determined by wrapping it around the big chain ring and the largest cog at the back, pulling the ends together, and then adding one outer link and one inner link. When I did that it seemed to me that my chain had 2 extra links - so I removed them. And eventually reconnected them with a new Power Lock.
4. Front Derailleur Setup -- I just followed the instructions in SRAM's YouTube video. With the chain off I used the markings to adjust the height and angle. I tweaked the high limit to help with setting the angle relative to the big chain ring (I ended up changing it again once the chain was on, though). And finally tweaked the position of the wedge piece.
5. Re-installing Chain / Jockey Wheel Feeding -- I don't want to make too big of a deal out of this... but on the rear derailleur the lower jockey wheel has alternating thick and thin teeth. I paid no attention to how my chain hit those before removing it - but when I reinstalled the chain I made sure the thicker teeth went through the outer links and the thinner teeth went through the inner links. Again, for all I know, it was like that before too.
6. Re-lubricated chain -- shifted through all the cogs and both chain rings.
7. Adjusted all limit screws -- high and low limit screws for both front and rear derailleur as well as the b-limit screw for the rear derailleur -- all according to how SRAM says to do so in their YouTube video.
8. Micro adjustments to rear derraileur -- The video briefly touches on this but not much more than saying to micro adjust the direction it's having trouble shifting. I connected my AXS app to the components while I did this because it will tell your what micro adjust position you're in (up to 29 I believe). I experimented a little bit to see how it sounded or felt at different adjustments - then finally set it where it seemed to be the smoothest shifting both directions, which for me was 8/29 but I'm not sure that's valuable information to anyone else.

SRAM's eTap AXS Setup YouTube video: https://youtu.be/Bx-kB7rNFJQ

Observations after:
1. The bike is quieter and smoother than before - but I wouldn't say it's quiet and smooth yet.
2. It is so much louder and vibrates more "in the stand" than on the road. Sometimes I would get into my own head and be pretty convinced I made no progress (maybe even made it louder!) when I was testing it in the stand. But once I went around the block on it I realized that it was quieter than before. There's obviously no buzz of the tires on the road or wind in your face when the bike is "in the stand"
3. The cassette is just beginning to show signs of wear - some silver coloring peaks through the black coating now. It's still pretty new, only 330 miles / 530 kms - but I'm hoping that it may just need more riding for it to "wear in" a bit more and truly be quiet and smooth.
4. The chain still seems to do some sort of "pulsing" when turning the cranks - not exactly sure the cause, but it does seem related to noise and vibrations. It almost seems like it sort of lightly pops off of the chain ring, cog, jockey wheel instead of smoothly moving on - which seems like a problem lubricating it would solve but apparently not. Maybe a little more wearing in.

Anyway - hopefully that contributes to the body of knowledge approaching this issue. Would love to hear if anyone else has seen more progress toward a fix or solution. Or even if simply putting more distance on it has helped.

fussball
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:18 am

by fussball

@revkev THANK YOU for the detailed write up! I've been struggling with the same sounds from my drivetrain, and I have been taken aback by the suggestions in the forum to "upgrade to Red". SRAM is generally a great component maker, and I assume that there's a way to get the Force drivetrain to be as silent as my old Red eTap and Red mechanical groupsets.

I implicitly 'shortened' my chain recently by switching from 46/33 to 48/35 chainrings while keeping the same chain, and the drivetrain did quiet down quite a bit. As an added bonus, I had issues with chainslap all the time initially, but the 'shorter' chain has basically eliminated that.

I do still have more noise from the drivetrain than I'd like, but I want to give it a little more time to wear in. I have only 369 miles on it right now according to strava. I also plan to degrease the chain and re-lube it at some point to see if that helps.

One odd behavior I've noted is a distinct "pulsing" in my rear derailleur, which is most exaggerated when running in the big chainring / biggest cog. I have not noticed this much pulsing on other bikes. It almost seems like I have oval chainrings. I created a short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOk87dw1wTo

Has anyone else noticed something like this with their Force eTap setup?

FWIW here's the drivetrain specs:
Chapter2 Tere Frame
Force AXS GXP crankset, 48/35
Force 10-36 Cassette
Max 36T rear derailleur

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 3014
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

This is normal and it happens on any brand of drivetrain. The chain is under a higher tension and the noise is coming from the pulley wheels rotating around a highly tensioned chain. If you lengthen the chain the noise will be lower. But you shouldn't run the big big gear combo anyways.

Sent from my KFMAWI using Tapatalk


fussball
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:18 am

by fussball

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:29 am
This is normal and it happens on any brand of drivetrain. The chain is under a higher tension and the noise is coming from the pulley wheels rotating around a highly tensioned chain. If you lengthen the chain the noise will be lower. But you shouldn't run the big big gear combo anyways.

Sent from my KFMAWI using Tapatalk
The noise has actually gone DOWN since I went to the tighter chain :noidea: ....

DaveS
Posts: 3132
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

If the big/big plus 1 inch method is done properly, it gives the shortest possible chain. If 1 inch or two additional links are removed, it would be impossible to shift to the big/big without damaging something. My bike has 406mm chain stays. With a 54 inch chain, it will wrap the 48/36, but the cage is fully extended with no travel left. A 55 inch chain is proper and will still have chain tension with a 35T little ring. The longer chain significantly is more quiet. Since I use a 48/32 Campy crank, the chains loses tension in the 32/11, but that combo never gets used.

FWIW, the Campy crank works great. No chain drops in the first 1000km.

mariosimas
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:27 pm

by mariosimas

dont know if you guys already seen this, but there is a new version of the RD:

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/rd-red-e-a2

Gattsu
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:10 am

by Gattsu

revkev wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:50 pm
RE: Noisy Drivetrain

I recently bought a Canyon Ultimate with SRAM Force eTap AXS (not that it matters but I always have to google the capitalization and word order for this groupset haha... I should just be okay with getting it slightly off). Like many others, I did notice that it seemed to be a bit noisy - kind of reminded me of what you hear when your chain / drivetrain needs to be degreased and re-lubricated. So I did that after a few rides - and it still sounded basically the same.

I would not say I have a solution or a fix exactly - but I did spend some time trying to work it out and reduce the noise and I think I may have made some progress toward a quieter drivetrain - and without swapping in any Red components (which does seem to have legitimately helped others but is, in my opinion, not exactly a solution or a fix - it's just a replacement part - although, admittedly, its nice that it doesn't require a completely new groupset).

My setup:
Bike: Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc 8.0 SL (also have to look this up to get it right!)
Size: XS
Chainrings: 48/35
Crank Arms: 170mm
Cassette: 10-28 - It appears that there are 3 dampening rings or whatever between the 4 smallest cogs which I believe was an update by SRAM to the Froce Cassettes.
Distance on bike: 330 miles / 530 kilometers
I basically haven't changed anything from how Canyon sends them out besides adding pedals and bottle cages and swapping in latex tubes.

What I did:
1. Detailed the chain and cassette -- completely removed them, degreased them, scrubbed them down, rinsed them, dried them.
2. Degreased large chain ring -- didn't remove it or anything - just used a cloth to clean it up. Didn't even try to clean the small ring.
3. Shortened the chain -- SRAM says in a YouTube video (linked below) that the correct chain length should be determined by wrapping it around the big chain ring and the largest cog at the back, pulling the ends together, and then adding one outer link and one inner link. When I did that it seemed to me that my chain had 2 extra links - so I removed them. And eventually reconnected them with a new Power Lock.
4. Front Derailleur Setup -- I just followed the instructions in SRAM's YouTube video. With the chain off I used the markings to adjust the height and angle. I tweaked the high limit to help with setting the angle relative to the big chain ring (I ended up changing it again once the chain was on, though). And finally tweaked the position of the wedge piece.
5. Re-installing Chain / Jockey Wheel Feeding -- I don't want to make too big of a deal out of this... but on the rear derailleur the lower jockey wheel has alternating thick and thin teeth. I paid no attention to how my chain hit those before removing it - but when I reinstalled the chain I made sure the thicker teeth went through the outer links and the thinner teeth went through the inner links. Again, for all I know, it was like that before too.
6. Re-lubricated chain -- shifted through all the cogs and both chain rings.
7. Adjusted all limit screws -- high and low limit screws for both front and rear derailleur as well as the b-limit screw for the rear derailleur -- all according to how SRAM says to do so in their YouTube video.
8. Micro adjustments to rear derraileur -- The video briefly touches on this but not much more than saying to micro adjust the direction it's having trouble shifting. I connected my AXS app to the components while I did this because it will tell your what micro adjust position you're in (up to 29 I believe). I experimented a little bit to see how it sounded or felt at different adjustments - then finally set it where it seemed to be the smoothest shifting both directions, which for me was 8/29 but I'm not sure that's valuable information to anyone else.

SRAM's eTap AXS Setup YouTube video: https://youtu.be/Bx-kB7rNFJQ

Observations after:
1. The bike is quieter and smoother than before - but I wouldn't say it's quiet and smooth yet.
2. It is so much louder and vibrates more "in the stand" than on the road. Sometimes I would get into my own head and be pretty convinced I made no progress (maybe even made it louder!) when I was testing it in the stand. But once I went around the block on it I realized that it was quieter than before. There's obviously no buzz of the tires on the road or wind in your face when the bike is "in the stand"
3. The cassette is just beginning to show signs of wear - some silver coloring peaks through the black coating now. It's still pretty new, only 330 miles / 530 kms - but I'm hoping that it may just need more riding for it to "wear in" a bit more and truly be quiet and smooth.
4. The chain still seems to do some sort of "pulsing" when turning the cranks - not exactly sure the cause, but it does seem related to noise and vibrations. It almost seems like it sort of lightly pops off of the chain ring, cog, jockey wheel instead of smoothly moving on - which seems like a problem lubricating it would solve but apparently not. Maybe a little more wearing in.

Anyway - hopefully that contributes to the body of knowledge approaching this issue. Would love to hear if anyone else has seen more progress toward a fix or solution. Or even if simply putting more distance on it has helped.
My solution makes me more happy and solves the problem. I´ve returned my Canyon and ordered one on Shimano Dura Ace DI2 :)))))))
Sram Etap AXS is Scrap for me. It made me so frustrating that I had no Joy from riding a bike.
Hopefully you have more luck with sram than I and are happy with it.

zik
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:07 am

by zik

I have question regarding bike Tarmac SL7 Pro Sram Force Etap AXS 1x12 46T
https://www.specialized.com/pl/en/tarma ... 94920-1144
I would to swap this 1x12 crankset to 2x12, what I will need to do this, Inner chainring 107BCD diameter 33T or 35T and deraillerur, that's it?
Or I need to change outher chainring as well?

thanks.

User avatar
MayhemSWE
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

by MayhemSWE

zik wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:46 pm
I have question regarding bike Tarmac SL7 Pro Sram Force Etap AXS 1x12 46T
https://www.specialized.com/pl/en/tarma ... 94920-1144
I would to swap this 1x12 crankset to 2x12, what I will need to do this, Inner chainring 107BCD diameter 33T or 35T and deraillerur, that's it?
Or I need to change outher chainring as well?
You would absolutely need to change both chainrings. Also it doesn't look like that Tarmac has a front derailleur mount, so you'd need to source one of those. And chainring bolts as they are different for 1x and 2x Force cranks. Why not buy a bike already configured the way you want it?

zik
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:07 am

by zik

because this is the only one white colour from tarmac range, I already checked and frame have mounts for braze-on derailleurs, maybe you could give me parts what I need, I would to know price cost of this upgrade:
40$ for inner chainring 35T https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-axs- ... chainring/
140$ for outer chainrng 46T https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-axs- ... chainring/
350$ for front etap axs derailleur https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-etap ... erailleur/
are these OK?

Please tell me wy I can't use original outer chainring from this force etap 1x12 crankset, as it have inside of it four bolts to mount additional chainring?

User avatar
MayhemSWE
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

by MayhemSWE

zik wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:16 pm
because this is the only one white colour from tarmac range, I already checked and frame have mounts for braze-on derailleurs
While the frame most like have bolt holes for a front derailleur hanger underneath the black cover, there clearly is no front derailleur hanger in the pictures. Unless Specialized already includes one as a spare part you will need to buy one from them separately.
zik wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:16 pm
40$ for inner chainring 35T https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-axs- ... chainring/
140$ for outer chainrng 46T https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-axs- ... chainring/
350$ for front etap axs derailleur https://glorycycles.com/sram-force-etap ... erailleur/
are these OK?
The only officially supported chainring combinations are with a 13T gap, so either 46-33T or 48-35T. You really should use one of those to ensure shifting ramps line up etc. And as already mentioned you will need the 11.6918.004.000 bolt kit as well.
zik wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:16 pm
Please tell me wy I can't use original outer chainring from this force etap 1x12 crankset, as it have inside of it four bolts to mount additional chainring?
Because chainrings for 1x use are designed to keep the chain in place. They do not have shifting ramps and their teeth have an alternating narrow-wide profile. Please do at least a tiny bit of research yourself…
Last edited by MayhemSWE on Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DaveS
Posts: 3132
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Most 1X chain rings have narrow/wide teeth to keep the chain in place. They are not meant to be shifted. You may find a better price for the FD on Ebay. There are usually some new for sale.

by Weenie


FlatlandClimber
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I am planning ahead for race season 2021 (hopefully it is not all Zwift again), and I have two brutal races in the high alps.
My bikes are equipped with RED AXS so far, Emonda 48/35 10-33, Aethos 50/37 10-33.
I have taken a look at the the climbs awaiting me next year, and the "Tre Cime de Lavaredo", and Mortirolo are that brutal and steep, that there a sections, where even a 35/33 at only 82 cadence requires me to go 320 Watts for extended periods.
I can do 320 Watts for an extended period, but being forced to do it in the absolute smallest gear, during a stage race, in the middle of August, at 2'000m altitude, just doesn't seem optimal for me.
I contemplated going 46/33 at the front for some of the bikes, but I couldn't really make it work (in my head). 48 is on the edge of being too small for me already, and while 33/33 will definitely be helpful, the second smallest gear at 33/28 is still pretty large (for 12+% climbs).
Also, I strive on cadence. 90+ when seated, 75 ish when standing.

--> That's how I arrived at the idea of the long cage Force on one of the bikes. For very mountainous races a 48/35 10-36 might just be optimal for me. 35/36 reduces the required power (I referred to earlier) from 320W to 294W. That's going from Sweetspot to Tempo, or pushing Sweetspot at my preferred Cadence of 90, instead of low 80s.

Weight wise, this conversion would add:
Red RD short: 276g Force RD mid: 301g. (25g)
Red 10-33 Cassette: 210g. Force 10-36 Cassette: 302g. (92g)
Total (117g)

Loads of blah blah for you to dig through, sorry guys. Here go my questions:
- How is the shifting performance of the long cage in your experience?
- How do you like the gear jumps, are they too big for riding on the flat?
- Has anyone tried 48/35 10-36 yet? I just don't know if Force Wide is primarily meant to work with 43/30 and not much else...
- Is there any information about a Red AXS Wide incoming? Especially the 10-36 Force cassette is overly heavy... A 10-36 Red should be around 240g...

Bonus: What is actually the part of the RD that allows the cage to shift the wider range cassette? Is it just the cage, because it says "short cage 10-33" and "mid-cage 10-36". Would just putting a longer cage onto my Red AXS derailleur do the trick? I suspect it doesn't...
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Æthos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (2021) 6.9kg

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, speed sensor, and bottle cages.

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