2019 Sram Force ETAP

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
JBeauBikes2
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:00 am

by JBeauBikes2

Who has upgraded the 48/35 rings for the 50/37 Red combo? I like the groupset but am torn on whether I'd rather switch to Shimano di2.
For one, my chain drops A LOT more than when it did on my bike that had Ultegra 6850. I also think it is harder to put out smooth power numbers having such a little chainring (48t). My numbers will fluctuate from 250-275-310-225-250 on a given 250w interval I'm doing, never noticed this on my Ultegra di2 setup, and I'm confident my pedal stroke is smooth enough to be a non-factor.

I also notice that it is really, really easy to cross-chain. In my little ring, anything farther right than the first 4 gears gets FD rub. It's not very sexy considering how loud the groupset already is, not to mention heavy!

Has anybody already swapped their Force groups out for another? I can't decide on whether or not to sell my Quarq DFour91 and put up with Force AXS or keep it and throw Di2 on the bike.
Last edited by JBeauBikes2 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Hapatron
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:00 pm

by Hapatron

ChiZ01 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:15 pm
Hapatron wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:08 pm
I've now done 200km on my new bike with Force AXS, but it still seems pretty loud to me, especially in certain gears (significantly in 5th hardest gear and 3-4 easiest gears).

What I've tried so far:
Checked H and L limit screws on rear derailleur
Tried different B-tensions on rear derailleur
Tried all micro-adjusts on rear derailleur until it actually shifts
Check H and L limit screws on front derailleur
Fully degreased and applied Smoove wax/lube
Bought a new chain to test with one extra link
LBS assured me that the mech hanger was straightened when they built the bike.

Still it's pretty noisy.
Could the XDR free hub or the actual cassette be the culprit?

Any tips is greatly appriciated

hanger adjustment tool is essential, can't believe ppl would spend thousands on a bike but do not have a $70 tool. The hanger maybe straight when the RD was installed, it does not mean it is straight now.
I agree with your point, cashing out big on a bike without having all tools to service it is silly, but seeing as the mechanic who built it actually checked the alignement when putting it togheter, and the bike has only been used for like 200km it doesn't make too much sense to me that the hanger is out of true.

Also, with a bent hanger, shouldnt ALL gears be noisy as well as poor shift quality?

g32ecs
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Hmm sort of a good news (for me at least) - I was ranting about having to swap a new crank from a new bike.

I just discovered you can buy just the arms from SRAM. For my purposes, the 165mm costs $200USD.

This is good news for me at least. I was preparing to pay way more than that

g32ecs
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:33 am
g32ecs wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:04 pm
Im looking at a 2020 Scott Addict 20 which is equipped with Force eTap and it looks like I have an immediate "change" that I need to do with the crank plus a PM which will probably cost me close to $1000 right after buying a bike. Ugh.

I hope I'll be making the right choice as Im buying this as a "package" - i like both the frame and gruppo
Same boat here. I ordered a felt ia advanced with force etap. Mainly because ultegra di2 will be another month and that kills my season.

Thing is, a long 170mm crank (for tri/tt) is specced on the force bikes. Must be a supply issue from sram... so they had to oversize cranks based on typical spec. Mind you, i want the power spider upgrade, so i ordered it with a 165mm crank. But the only way to get the 165mm crank was to get it with a 2x chainrings... so i will immediatly have a force crank and chainrings to sell. Ugh. Oh... except that the crank will be 2-3weeks before available again.

And did i mention theat the FD cage looks cheap?

I hope i dont regret this as it was a solid 1500$ premium over ultegra di2 (mind you, sram will come with their hydraulic brakes vs a cheaper trp setup on the di2).
See my post above

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

g32ecs wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:51 pm
RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:33 am
g32ecs wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:04 pm
Im looking at a 2020 Scott Addict 20 which is equipped with Force eTap and it looks like I have an immediate "change" that I need to do with the crank plus a PM which will probably cost me close to $1000 right after buying a bike. Ugh.

I hope I'll be making the right choice as Im buying this as a "package" - i like both the frame and gruppo
Same boat here. I ordered a felt ia advanced with force etap. Mainly because ultegra di2 will be another month and that kills my season.

Thing is, a long 170mm crank (for tri/tt) is specced on the force bikes. Must be a supply issue from sram... so they had to oversize cranks based on typical spec. Mind you, i want the power spider upgrade, so i ordered it with a 165mm crank. But the only way to get the 165mm crank was to get it with a 2x chainrings... so i will immediatly have a force crank and chainrings to sell. Ugh. Oh... except that the crank will be 2-3weeks before available again.

And did i mention theat the FD cage looks cheap?

I hope i dont regret this as it was a solid 1500$ premium over ultegra di2 (mind you, sram will come with their hydraulic brakes vs a cheaper trp setup on the di2).
See my post above
When i ordered there were no standalone 165mm cranks in stock for a while... so i got it with the chainring. My impatience is sometimes expensive, but we have a short season in canada.

g32ecs
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:32 pm
g32ecs wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:51 pm
RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:33 am
g32ecs wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:04 pm
Im looking at a 2020 Scott Addict 20 which is equipped with Force eTap and it looks like I have an immediate "change" that I need to do with the crank plus a PM which will probably cost me close to $1000 right after buying a bike. Ugh.

I hope I'll be making the right choice as Im buying this as a "package" - i like both the frame and gruppo
Same boat here. I ordered a felt ia advanced with force etap. Mainly because ultegra di2 will be another month and that kills my season.

Thing is, a long 170mm crank (for tri/tt) is specced on the force bikes. Must be a supply issue from sram... so they had to oversize cranks based on typical spec. Mind you, i want the power spider upgrade, so i ordered it with a 165mm crank. But the only way to get the 165mm crank was to get it with a 2x chainrings... so i will immediatly have a force crank and chainrings to sell. Ugh. Oh... except that the crank will be 2-3weeks before available again.

And did i mention theat the FD cage looks cheap?

I hope i dont regret this as it was a solid 1500$ premium over ultegra di2 (mind you, sram will come with their hydraulic brakes vs a cheaper trp setup on the di2).
See my post above
When i ordered there were no standalone 165mm cranks in stock for a while... so i got it with the chainring. My impatience is sometimes expensive, but we have a short season in canada.




Sorry to hear, but you are absolutely correct about our season. Our bikes need to be primed by March and on the trainer by November (id have those odd -5c days though).

morrisond
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

g32ecs wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:10 pm
RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:32 pm
g32ecs wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:51 pm
RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:33 am


Same boat here. I ordered a felt ia advanced with force etap. Mainly because ultegra di2 will be another month and that kills my season.

Thing is, a long 170mm crank (for tri/tt) is specced on the force bikes. Must be a supply issue from sram... so they had to oversize cranks based on typical spec. Mind you, i want the power spider upgrade, so i ordered it with a 165mm crank. But the only way to get the 165mm crank was to get it with a 2x chainrings... so i will immediatly have a force crank and chainrings to sell. Ugh. Oh... except that the crank will be 2-3weeks before available again.

And did i mention theat the FD cage looks cheap?

I hope i dont regret this as it was a solid 1500$ premium over ultegra di2 (mind you, sram will come with their hydraulic brakes vs a cheaper trp setup on the di2).
See my post above
When i ordered there were no standalone 165mm cranks in stock for a while... so i got it with the chainring. My impatience is sometimes expensive, but we have a short season in canada.




Sorry to hear, but you are absolutely correct about our season. Our bikes need to be primed by March and on the trainer by November (id have those odd -5c days though).
That's why you have a gravel bike with Fenders and Winter tires! I live in Oakville and ride almost all Winter usually only missing 2-3 weekends. Mind you the rides are a lot shorter but it's actually a lot nicer to get outside than spin inside on a trainer.

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I have a fat bike with studded tires

And a neo 2

Hapatron
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:00 pm

by Hapatron

Trying to see if there's more people than just me with the same issues.

Even after 800 km my cassette seems very noisy.
It's fine in certain gears, super loud in others (not crosschaining) with the occasional "rattle" -- this happens both in the small and big ring.

What I've tried so far:
Checked H and L limit screws on rear derailleur
Tried different B-tensions on rear derailleur
Tried all micro-adjusts on rear derailleur
Check H and L limit screws on front derailleur
Fully degreased and applied several different lubes to no prevail.
Bought a new chain to test with one extra link
Checked and aligned drop out.

All that's left right now is to test a new cassette even if I'd really rather not have to cash out 180 euro simply to test it.

JBeauBikes2
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:00 am

by JBeauBikes2

Hapatron wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:30 pm
Trying to see if there's more people than just me with the same issues.

Even after 800 km my cassette seems very noisy.
It's fine in certain gears, super loud in others (not crosschaining) with the occasional "rattle" -- this happens both in the small and big ring.

What I've tried so far:
Checked H and L limit screws on rear derailleur
Tried different B-tensions on rear derailleur
Tried all micro-adjusts on rear derailleur
Check H and L limit screws on front derailleur
Fully degreased and applied several different lubes to no prevail.
Bought a new chain to test with one extra link
Checked and aligned drop out.

All that's left right now is to test a new cassette even if I'd really rather not have to cash out 180 euro simply to test it.
This is on-par with my experience. Near the middle of the cassette, even still of the low side, mine gets very noisy and seems to love to cross-chaining around this area as well. I've had my shop play around with most of the things you've also adjusted, done it all by the manual to a tee, and there really isn't anything that works. I've read similar things with the Red AXS group.

My biggest issue with the group is chain drops when shifting from Big -> Small ring. If that's not happening to you every 100km, consider yourself lucky. The noise is my second biggest complaint, but it does bother me.

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 3320
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

More quality front shifting and noisy casettes... But heaps of range

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Using Tapatalk

CAAD8FRED
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

Maybe this has already been discussed, but does anyone know how SRAM 12 (Red or Force) compares in terms or drivetrain efficiency and aero to Di2 in general.

ChiZ01
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:20 pm

by ChiZ01

CAAD8FRED wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:26 pm
Maybe this has already been discussed, but does anyone know how SRAM 12 (Red or Force) compares in terms or drivetrain efficiency and aero to Di2 in general.
not sure about aero but smaller chainring = less efficiency

Hapatron
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:00 pm

by Hapatron

JBeauBikes2 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:20 pm
Hapatron wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:30 pm
Trying to see if there's more people than just me with the same issues.

Even after 800 km my cassette seems very noisy.
It's fine in certain gears, super loud in others (not crosschaining) with the occasional "rattle" -- this happens both in the small and big ring.

What I've tried so far:
Checked H and L limit screws on rear derailleur
Tried different B-tensions on rear derailleur
Tried all micro-adjusts on rear derailleur
Check H and L limit screws on front derailleur
Fully degreased and applied several different lubes to no prevail.
Bought a new chain to test with one extra link
Checked and aligned drop out.

All that's left right now is to test a new cassette even if I'd really rather not have to cash out 180 euro simply to test it.
This is on-par with my experience. Near the middle of the cassette, even still of the low side, mine gets very noisy and seems to love to cross-chaining around this area as well. I've had my shop play around with most of the things you've also adjusted, done it all by the manual to a tee, and there really isn't anything that works. I've read similar things with the Red AXS group.

My biggest issue with the group is chain drops when shifting from Big -> Small ring. If that's not happening to you every 100km, consider yourself lucky. The noise is my second biggest complaint, but it does bother me.
I've actually only experienced chain drop twice. Once was "random" and one was when I shifted during very low speeds, so that could be why. Other than those times I haven't had issues with chain drops.

The noise is still driving me nuts tough.

by Weenie


g32ecs
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Whats the equivalent of a 52/36 - 11 or 12/25 combo on the AXS?

Not a gearing expert sorry.


Edit

NVM, there's a nifty calculator at SRAMs website

https://www.sram.com/en/life/stories/x-range-gearing

48/35, 10/26

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