2019 Sram Force ETAP

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
zinedrei
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:36 am

by zinedrei

Calnago wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:37 pm
@zinedrei: I would agree with @Moonoi on just stuffing a DUB BB into the BB86 shell (using the Threadfit cups installed from the factory). But you seem bent on swapping out the Threadfit cups as well, hence looking for a T45 solution. So, I would question that decision first, especially if cost factors into the equation at all. But secondly, I don’t know what it is about DUB that makes you even want it for your road bike.
thanks for the input.
i was told by my LBS that they can only get the 165mm crank in Dub config so unfortunately, I have no choice but to use a Dub compatible bb. i will stick with the threadfit cups from the factory and use the sram dub bearings on my bike since most agree that there is no significant difference if I change it to the ceramicspeed t45 dub bb.

cost is a factor but i am alright to spend extra if the advantage is significantly going to help me enjoy the riding experience.

by Weenie


Alexandrumarian
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:09 am
Alexandrumarian wrote:Is this thing really supposed to be noisy? Friend just got a tarmac with force and it is pretty much annoying to ride next to him. Sounds like the chain is a little bit dry, gritty and rubbing all at the same time. Dealer mechanic told him it's normal and chain needs to wear in a bit. I don't buy that (and besides he had already did 500km on it)
We have sold 3 tarmac pros with force axs recently and I set up one of them. The chain is NOT loud. Find a new mechanic.
Thanks. I asked him to get the bike over so I can double check it. I am far from being a real bike mechanic but I'm reasonably good at tinkering with stuff. Watched the Sram install vids a couple times. Amazing how easy it all is with electronic and no cables to route and tune. I found the rear derailleur limits to be OK. Visually I preferred 2 trim positions away from what i found but it wasn't anything big. Sounded better to me after the new trim. I found the chain to be pretty dry, fixed that and again sounded better. Found the front derailleur limits to be piss poor. 2mm gap for granny combo and serios rub for big. Changed them to 0.7mm both. Went for a test ride and found it quiet for the most part. It still turns quite noisy in the big ring and bigger cogs. They should have simply banned big-big from the get go. Tomorrow I will lower the cage some and see if that makes an improvement. Looks a bit too close now (distance between cog and jockey teeth). It doesn't help that the 48 teeth big ring often sends you towards the big cogs...

Other than this, i was really impressed with the effortless operation of an electronic group (my first experience) only to be let down by the slowness of the shifts. On my mech Campy bike I feel I can dump the cassette and have time to brew an espresso while the etap is still clicking down a cog at a time :)

Disc brakes. I found too much useless travel before the bite point especially on the front brake, even with the adjust screw fully turned. In 30 mins of riding in a park I crushed my fingers several times. On my own rim bike I have no problem doing most braking from the hood with 1 finger while the others are still wrapped under the lever. The XT brakes on my mtb feel better than the sram as well. I don't understand the 160/160 pair, rear felt overpowered. Panic stop test showed a pretty noisy and clunky front operation, again nowhere as nice as my XT mtb. Rear was solid and smooth though so I am left to wonder if the front needs a new bleed or something.

On the plus side, I really liked the frame both for feel and looks. Coupled with the wheels and 28 (measured) rubber it felt well damped but not losing the solid feeling.

jlok
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Alexandrumarian wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:19 pm

In 30 mins of riding in a park I crushed my fingers several times.
Bleed the brakes again and adjust the lever reach. It shouldn't crush your fingers.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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Alexbn921
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

My front lever only moves 1-2mm before it engages with free stroke closed. I have it full open just to get some free stroke. The rear has a longer hose and a little more movement, but it's almost full open too. They both leave room at the bars but I have big hands and don't put my finger behind them. I also spead the pad springs to get extra clearance and free stroke.
Over all feel and power is amazing. Front does so much work that you really need to feather the rear. Thinking of swaping out a 140 for the back. I want the XTR rotors though and then I would need to do both of them.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Will try to find another shop with a Sram bleed kit. I played with the reach adjustment, it helps some but nothing spectacular. Out of about 7cm of lever tip travel, from open to crushed on handlebars, about half is free open air. Then another cm for solid engagement leaving very little before the shift lever touches the bars. Doesn't look like great modulation at all.

jlok
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Obviously it's wrong if the Contact Point Adjustment is all the way out. Get a proper rebleed asap.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

ooo
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

SRAM Force 12s crankset - is it compatible with Pressfit MTB 41 x 89.5-92 mm frame ? (using sram mtb pressfit dub bottom bracket)
'

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Alexbn921
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

ooo wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:52 am
SRAM Force 12s crankset - is it compatible with Pressfit MTB 41 x 89.5-92 mm frame ? (using sram mtb pressfit dub bottom bracket)
Maybe, but I don't think so. Sindle is 90mm and with the right spacers it would work. The main problem is the chainstay clearance and BB clearance. So even if the spacing was good the rest might no fit.

DaveS
Posts: 2556
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

No one has tried measuring the axs sprocket spacing? I took some measurements on my chorus 12 cassette and came up with 3.45mm. I measure sprocket thickness and use feeler gauges to measure the space between the sprockets. Add the two to get c-c spacing.

Also, FWIW, the fear of the axs chain being incompatible with anything but axs appears to be exaggerated. I have the force axs chain on two chorus 12 bikes and it works fine. The shifting has been flawless and the chain is quieter than campy 12 chain. The axs rollers are .006 inch larger than a Campy chain. The axs design follows a #40 drive chain standard while all other chains follow a #41 drive chain standard.

rendered
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:05 pm

by rendered

How do I get this to work with a Pinarello Dogma F8 on Campagnolo Shamal Ultra Wheelset?

Will it be compatible? Which Freehub body do I need to buy? I currently have it setup for 10/11spd Campagnolo Record mechanical rim brake.

DaveS
Posts: 2556
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Campy 12 cassette fits on any hub that accepts Campy 9-11. If you have a SRAM axs cassette, it's never going on a Campy hub because an XDR driver is required.

rendered
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:05 pm

by rendered

DaveS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Campy 12 cassette fits on any hub that accepts Campy 9-11. If you have a SRAM axs cassette, it's never going on a Campy hub because an XDR driver is required.
do they make XDR drivers or adapters for Campagnolo wheelsets yet?

DaveS
Posts: 2556
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

rendered wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:00 pm
DaveS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Campy 12 cassette fits on any hub that accepts Campy 9-11. If you have a SRAM axs cassette, it's never going on a Campy hub because an XDR driver is required.
do they make XDR drivers or adapters for Campagnolo wheelsets yet?
Apparently, they do. I did a Google search for fulcrum xdr driver and found it for $110. It's fulcrum part number R0-123.

rendered
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:05 pm

by rendered

DaveS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:14 pm
rendered wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:00 pm
DaveS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Campy 12 cassette fits on any hub that accepts Campy 9-11. If you have a SRAM axs cassette, it's never going on a Campy hub because an XDR driver is required.
do they make XDR drivers or adapters for Campagnolo wheelsets yet?
Apparently, they do. I did a Google search for fulcrum xdr driver and found it for $110. It's fulcrum part number R0-123.

Thank you!!! now let's see if it fits my Campagnolo Shamal wheelset...

RocketRacing
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:49 am
akdmx wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:40 pm

I suspect the difference is mostly in the chainrings

I think most of the weight difference is in the crankarms themselves. I remember seeing a YouTube video where they weighed both the Force and Red cranksets, then attached the red crankarms to the Force spider+chainrings and it was barely any heavier than the Red chainrings.

e: Found it. https://youtu.be/Ha-AH7ha4I0?t=1012

Force crank 46/33 chainrings/spider only 13g heavier than Red chainrings. Not sure about the 48/35, assuming a couple more grams difference.
My math from the numbers on the video shows the red crank + force spider/chainring s 133g lighter than a force crank with the force chainrings. So the force cranks/spindle are 133g heavier than red.

by Weenie


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