2019 Sram Force ETAP

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

In 5 years with di2 I've had a flat battery once and I knew it needed to be charged but got lazy, never had a connector come lose and with a D-Fly can monitor/adjust everything.

Compare that to needing to take batteries off my etap every time they went in the car (I generally have a bike in the van at all times) to not prematurely drain the batteries I'll stick with the "old" tech.

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by Weenie


talltales
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by talltales

You might as well argue one of your 4 batteries could "disconnect" or "die". I sincerely question the claim that wireless is more reliable than wired. No other vehicle that i know of have opted for wireless and separate batteries. Imagine a wireless gear shifter and turn signal in your car or MC. That would be silly. But on a bicycle, all of a sudden its a desirable feature. Really?
Imo the biggest drawback to wireless is the bulk of it all. With a wired system you can use one, in the frame, power source, rather than having a bulky battery on every single unit.

MrRobot
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:54 am

by MrRobot

Hello,

I run a force 1x11 groupset (rim brake) and would be interested to know just how much it would take (i.e cost) to move to force AXS 1x12

Beyond the mech,shifters and a new XDR hub.

Would my original force 1 cranks and x-sync chainring be compatible with a 12 speed chain?

If not, can I buy a 12 speed chainring to fit my original force 1x 11 cranks and spider?

Cheers,

chinarello
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by chinarello

MrRobot wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:49 pm
Would my original force 1 cranks and x-sync chainring be compatible with a 12 speed chain?
If not, can I buy a 12 speed chainring to fit my original force 1x 11 cranks and spider?
Cheers,
No and not yet anyway. I don't understand the whole point of the upgrade sets. Who are they meant for?

talltales
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

chinarello wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:39 pm
MrRobot wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:49 pm
Would my original force 1 cranks and x-sync chainring be compatible with a 12 speed chain?
If not, can I buy a 12 speed chainring to fit my original force 1x 11 cranks and spider?
Cheers,
No and not yet anyway. I don't understand the whole point of the upgrade sets. Who are they meant for?
I dont get it either. If its really true an AXS road chain is a new proprietary design thats only compatible with AXS road cassettes, it stands to reason this goes for the chain ring as well. - But them why offer an upgrade not including the crank? ... So confusing ... I foresee endless debates and endless forum questions on this topic in the near future. Maybe I should just stop dreaming ever moving beyond 10 speed :-)

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

They're for when you buy a fancy new complete bike and then want to upgrade your old bike in a more confusing and less logical manner?

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corky
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by corky

talltales wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:03 am
You might as well argue one of your 4 batteries could "disconnect" or "die". I sincerely question the claim that wireless is more reliable than wired. No other vehicle that i know of have opted for wireless and separate batteries. Imagine a wireless gear shifter and turn signal in your car or MC. That would be silly. But on a bicycle, all of a sudden its a desirable feature. Really?
Imo the biggest drawback to wireless is the bulk of it all. With a wired system you can use one, in the frame, power source, rather than having a bulky battery on every single unit.
It’s desirable because you don’t have to have multiple holes drilled or molded into a frame. Installation and removable are much easier. If you want a very clean front setup you don’t have to worry about running wires through bars stems and steerers. Removable batteries also allow remote charging.

MrRobot
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:54 am

by MrRobot

Cheers for the info,

Would a 110 bcd wolftooth components chain ring work.. think it will fit force spider and their website rates them for 12 speed?

I’ve seen them in use with eagle groupsets or are road and mtb 12 speed chains different again!!

talltales
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

corky wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:15 pm
talltales wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:03 am
You might as well argue one of your 4 batteries could "disconnect" or "die". I sincerely question the claim that wireless is more reliable than wired. No other vehicle that i know of have opted for wireless and separate batteries. Imagine a wireless gear shifter and turn signal in your car or MC. That would be silly. But on a bicycle, all of a sudden its a desirable feature. Really?
Imo the biggest drawback to wireless is the bulk of it all. With a wired system you can use one, in the frame, power source, rather than having a bulky battery on every single unit.
It’s desirable because you don’t have to have multiple holes drilled or molded into a frame. Installation and removable are much easier. If you want a very clean front setup you don’t have to worry about running wires through bars stems and steerers. Removable batteries also allow remote charging.
i'm sure these issues are very inconvenient if you replace your deraillours or gruppo all the time, but is it really tho? By that logic, running hydraulic brake lines in the frame is also an issue. I get that its easier upgrading, but then you still have holes in the frame and I would argue wireless is more like a workaround for frames that were not designed for electronic shifting. of course the concept is alluring, if it was "free". But its not. priceses seem high and the deraillours become somewhat bulky too
Last edited by talltales on Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ancker
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:29 pm

by ancker

talltales wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:36 pm
corky wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:15 pm
talltales wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:03 am
You might as well argue one of your 4 batteries could "disconnect" or "die". I sincerely question the claim that wireless is more reliable than wired. No other vehicle that i know of have opted for wireless and separate batteries. Imagine a wireless gear shifter and turn signal in your car or MC. That would be silly. But on a bicycle, all of a sudden its a desirable feature. Really?
Imo the biggest drawback to wireless is the bulk of it all. With a wired system you can use one, in the frame, power source, rather than having a bulky battery on every single unit.
It’s desirable because you don’t have to have multiple holes drilled or molded into a frame. Installation and removable are much easier. If you want a very clean front setup you don’t have to worry about running wires through bars stems and steerers. Removable batteries also allow remote charging.
i'm sure these issues are very inconvenient if you replace your deraillours or gruppo all the time, but is it really tho? By that logic, running hydraulic brake lines in the frame is also an issue. I get that its easier upgrading, but then you still have holes in the frame and I would argue wireless is more like a workaround for frames that were not designed for electronic shifting. of course the concept is alluring, if it was "free". But its not. priceses seem high and the deraillours become somewhat bulky too
The car analogy isn't very sound. If a driver had to replace said gear shifter or turn signal and that meant running new or replacing existing wiring, but there was an equally effective but wireless alternative, I bet a large percentage would take the wireless option just for simplicity sake. Automobile wiring looms are extremely complicated and super expensive to replace if you have an issue. Think about all the work required to strip out the wiring and replace it. Sure it mostly "just works" but when it doesn't, might as well total the car.

Of course, bikes are nowhere near this complicated. Wireless and wired options are going to come down to rider preference. Clearly there is a market for both.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Seems most bikes are priced +/- US$5000/5000€, which is quite competitive vs UDi2 equipped bikes in the US.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

TobinHatesYou wrote:Seems most bikes are priced +/- US$5000/5000€, which is quite competitive vs UDi2 equipped bikes in the US.
Pretty much every model I gave seen that offers both ui2 and force axs has been priced exactly the same.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

It’s a shame the standalone group pricing is so high...I get it though, SRAM worked very closely with bike brands to get Force back into OE relevancy. That means making complete bike sales way more enticing than upgrading existing bikes.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling


TobinHatesYou wrote:It’s a shame the standalone group pricing is so high...
There is this moving shift in the bike industry towards disposable bikes. Instead of upgrading a group or a wheelset, just get a new bike.
Shimano is also shortening it's product lifespan for the same reason.

by Weenie


TheRich
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

ancker wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:17 pm

The car analogy isn't very sound. If a driver had to replace said gear shifter or turn signal and that meant running new or replacing existing wiring, but there was an equally effective but wireless alternative, I bet a large percentage would take the wireless option just for simplicity sake. Automobile wiring looms are extremely complicated and super expensive to replace if you have an issue. Think about all the work required to strip out the wiring and replace it. Sure it mostly "just works" but when it doesn't, might as well total the car.

Of course, bikes are nowhere near this complicated. Wireless and wired options are going to come down to rider preference. Clearly there is a market for both.
Multiple batteries with shorter lifespans is a simpler solution?

We have different interpretations of the word "simple." You can dig that it's wireless and works great, and that's fine... but let's not make every conversation the "but it goes to 11" scene from Spinal Tap.

Using tubes with mountain bikes is "simpler," it ends up entailing more work overall, but you did save a few minutes during installation!
Last edited by TheRich on Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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