Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bet1216
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:52 pm

by bet1216

jadedaid wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:20 am
bet1216 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:14 pm
So by indirectly causing eTap to be invented they successfully increased their own sales :) because while the thought and installation of wireless is great(and installation is certainly easy, especially on pre-internal cable rounted bikes)...it only caused people to what Shimano products more because SRAM can't make a front derailleur that works consistently at all. :)
No issues with the FD in 10k on OG Etap, haven't heard issues from anyone I ride with on AXS either. Etap was a big step forward, regardless of what you think of Sram.
I actually really like SRAM. I have multiple sets of Zipp wheels along with Zipp cockpits on 2 TT bikes and some stems and seat post on others. I use Red rear cassettes on all bikes. have 2 TT bikes that have 11-speed Etap and 1 road bike with 11-sp Etap. All 3 bikes have fiddly shifting and crappy front shifting (and 1 TT bike drops the chain constantly on the front...inconsistently sometimes inside some times outside). I really want to like Etap because it is easier to install when you don't have to mess with etubes and keeping them from bouncing in the frame, but alas my wife and I have consistently been let down by it (2 dropped chains in Ironman was the last straw for her...we might convert her TT bike to Di2). We have/had 2 bikes with DI2 (1 Ultegra (its gone now), 1 Dura-Ace....bomb proof...they just work never an issue, never dropped chains or missed or over shifts, and they shift noticably faster and smoother (espeically under load). No experience with AXS...SRAM rep at an Ironman race last year that messed with one of the TT bikes said the AXS FD would solve the issues (he couldn't get it to work consistently either). I haven't tried it...I won't, I'm done with Etap at this point. I just bought a new set of Zipp wheels for a new bike build (Dura-Ace Di2 going on this one) so I'm not done with SRAM. My experience with Etap is like mine with Garmin Vectors...constant issues...I want to love the products....but I can't...I keep going back to Power2Max because they work and I don't have screw with them, but I love my Garmin watches and head units....not the pedals though.

justonwo
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 9:16 pm

by justonwo

I wouldn't go with SRAM either. I have AXS Red on 3 bikes. Never had a finickier system. Weird shifts in the back. Dropped chains. I'll never get another SRAM road drivetrain. I can't wait until Shimano releases the next gen of Di2.
2020 S-Works Roubaix AXS Red (Zipp 303 NSW)
2020 Ultimate Evo 10.0 AXS Red (DT Swiss PRC-1100)
2020 Pinarello Dogma F12 AXS Red (Enve SES 3.4 Disc)
2006 Cervelo Soloist
2018 S-Works Camber
2019 S-Works Epic

Retired: 2014 S-Works Roubaix

by Weenie


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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2745
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I have no brand loyalty and I tend to pick the gems from each brand. My bike has Shimano Di2 drivetrain, Quarq DFour PM, Campy Bora wheels, Shimano pedals, and a Canyon/Ergon VCLS seatpost. Everything works as it should. Life is good. Let's hope Sram can sort out their shifting issues and Shimano can sort out their PM accuracy issues. And oh I really like Shimano hubs but their wheel range sucks.

Ritxis
Posts: 508
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

New Dura-ace..........will we see it on the Tour? a friend from a nearby store has seen him in a photo......no me puede contar mas

adilosnave
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:10 pm

by adilosnave

You can't leave us hanging like that!!!! Did your friend say anything about the photo at all?

Ritxis
Posts: 508
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

adilosnave wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:07 pm
You can't leave us hanging like that!!!! Did your friend say anything about the photo at all?

he just told me that he looks good ....... nor does he say anything by pulling his tongue :(

I will keep insisting

ipenguinking
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal

by ipenguinking

Let's say the new DA goes micro spline but the spacing stays 130mm for rim brake version.
1. What are the possilble technical difficulties to retrofit the current HG freehub with micro spline? Assuming the same hub mfg makes the micro spline freehub.
2. What might be the differences between the current micro spline (mainly for mtb) and coming road micro spline? I'm trying to guess how fast wheel manufacturers can have wheels available for new DA.

I know everything is hypothetical at this point. But it is always fun to start planning the next upgrade early.

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ultimobici
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Location: London, UK
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by ultimobici

ipenguinking wrote:Let's say the new DA goes micro spline but the spacing stays 130mm for rim brake version.
1. What are the possilble technical difficulties to retrofit the current HG freehub with micro spline? Assuming the same hub mfg makes the micro spline freehub.
2. What might be the differences between the current micro spline (mainly for mtb) and coming road micro spline? I'm trying to guess how fast wheel manufacturers can have wheels available for new DA.

I know everything is hypothetical at this point. But it is always fun to start planning the next upgrade early.
If the 12 speed MTB is anything to go by, it’s more a case of if Shimano grants permission to use the design. They restricted it a fair bit to begin with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6056
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ipenguinking wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:38 pm
Let's say the new DA goes micro spline but the spacing stays 130mm for rim brake version.
1. What are the possilble technical difficulties to retrofit the current HG freehub with micro spline? Assuming the same hub mfg makes the micro spline freehub.
2. What might be the differences between the current micro spline (mainly for mtb) and coming road micro spline? I'm trying to guess how fast wheel manufacturers can have wheels available for new DA.

I know everything is hypothetical at this point. But it is always fun to start planning the next upgrade early.

1) Hub axle OLD has basically nothing to do with freehub width. It's not like 130mm, 135/142mm, 148mm, various tandem hubs, etc. use different freehubs.
2) Micro Spline has the same width as HG
3) Road Micro Spline would be 1.85mm wider, just like road HG and SRAM XDR.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

petromyzon
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

Not doubting, just asking; why is it necessary to have wider bodies on road? Because the largest cog is comparatively smaller and therefore you need more width to clear the drive side spokes?

It would be amazing if Shimano made 12 speed HG cassettes so we could continue using older wheels if we didn't need a 10 speed cog. I won't hold my breath for it though.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6056
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

petromyzon wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:20 am
Not doubting, just asking; why is it necessary to have wider bodies on road? Because the largest cog is comparatively smaller and therefore you need more width to clear the drive side spokes?

It would be amazing if Shimano made 12 speed HG cassettes so we could continue using older wheels if we didn't need a 10 speed cog. I won't hold my breath for it though.

The 1st cog on a MTB cassette is large enough that it can be designed to "hang" over the spokes. The 11-34t Shimano road cassettes are also designed this way.

Ritxis
Posts: 508
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

ipenguinking wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:38 pm
Let's say the new DA goes micro spline but the spacing stays 130mm for rim brake version.
1. What are the possilble technical difficulties to retrofit the current HG freehub with micro spline? Assuming the same hub mfg makes the micro spline freehub.
2. What might be the differences between the current micro spline (mainly for mtb) and coming road micro spline? I'm trying to guess how fast wheel manufacturers can have wheels available for new DA.

I know everything is hypothetical at this point. But it is always fun to start planning the next upgrade early.

Do you think Shimano is going to make Sram's "mistake" with his XD-XDr?

Sram did not plan the 12 speed on the road? why didn't you directly make an XD freehub for mtb and road? Or did they realize making the 12 road cassettes, that these did not enter the XD?

Ritxis
Posts: 508
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

petromyzon wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:20 am
Not doubting, just asking; why is it necessary to have wider bodies on road? Because the largest cog is comparatively smaller and therefore you need more width to clear the drive side spokes?

It would be amazing if Shimano made 12 speed HG cassettes so we could continue using older wheels if we didn't need a 10 speed cog. I won't hold my breath for it though.
There is a patent for an HG to Microspline adapter.....will see the light? Shimano scores a great deal with HG 12 11/12-XX cassettes

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

ultimobici wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:57 am

If the 12 speed MTB is anything to go by, it’s more a case of if Shimano grants permission to use the design. They restricted it a fair bit to begin with.


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I think the fact that they have already licensed MicroSpline to a number of manufacturers for MTB use should facilitate a quicker pickup on the road side.

by Weenie


damond
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:47 pm

by damond

The next gen Dura-Ace will not have MicroSpline technology.

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