Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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bespoke
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:58 pm

by bespoke

Hilarious - they will hunt you down for breaking an NDA; but they have no problem launching a product, immediately making the current stuff obsolete and then not delivering new stuff for months and months after they promise. The current XTR debacle is the latest sh*t show that follows on from the road disc delays.
Apple et al make the cycling trade look like the jokers we all are. One of the reasons the AXS launch was so good was you had a global launch on Day 1 and by Day 3 OEM bikes were shipping with the stuff.....
Warning - Inherently biased:
www.bespokecycling.com

adilosnave
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:10 pm

by adilosnave

bespoke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm
Hilarious - they will hunt you down for breaking an NDA; but they have no problem launching a product, immediately making the current stuff obsolete and then not delivering new stuff for months and months after they promise. The current XTR debacle is the latest sh*t show that follows on from the road disc delays.
Apple et al make the cycling trade look like the jokers we all are. One of the reasons the AXS launch was so good was you had a global launch on Day 1 and by Day 3 OEM bikes were shipping with the stuff.....
It wouldn't be funny if you leaked information and broke the NDA. Reason the AXS launch went so well is because of a rock-solid NDA and even then I'm surprised that nothing of substance got out. The only spy pics I saw of it were on a Katusha bike and that was out in the open for everyone to see. Very impressive launch.

Something else to consider about whatever Shimano releases next is that the Olympics are in Tokyo next year and I"m sure they want to take advantage of the media presence. Maybe not enough to move around product launches though.

As for Shimano not getting the product to customer's hands in a timely manner, I do believe they had a massive factory fire and the Sylence hubs couldn't be 100% trusted over the long-haul. Personally, I'd rather them pull back a product for more testing and development if they foresee issues than companies sending out product that's not been fully hashed out (Tesla!!!!, SRAM's hydro brake debacle and anything related to front derailleurs come to mind.) Shimano plays it safe.

by Weenie


BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2311
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

bespoke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm
Hilarious - they will hunt you down for breaking an NDA; but they have no problem launching a product, immediately making the current stuff obsolete and then not delivering new stuff for months and months after they promise. The current XTR debacle is the latest sh*t show that follows on from the road disc delays.
Apple et al make the cycling trade look like the jokers we all are. One of the reasons the AXS launch was so good was you had a global launch on Day 1 and by Day 3 OEM bikes were shipping with the stuff.....
I don't think that Shimano envisioned its high end finishing plant burning down when they set their product launch schedule for XTR.

wingguy
Posts: 4305
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:44 pm
I don't think that Shimano envisioned its high end finishing plant burning down when they set their product launch schedule for XTR.
True, but they did also say they had to go back to the drawing board to redesign the cranks after the launch, and they binned off the hubs completely for a second time. That’s nothing to do with bad luck at the plant!

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2311
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

wingguy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:09 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:44 pm
I don't think that Shimano envisioned its high end finishing plant burning down when they set their product launch schedule for XTR.
True, but they did also say they had to go back to the drawing board to redesign the cranks after the launch, and they binned off the hubs completely for a second time. That’s nothing to do with bad luck at the plant!
I believe the reason they had to redesign the cranks was the finishing. After the factory fire they didn't have the capacity to manufacture the original finish in great enough quantity to bring to market. The hubs, yes, they were an own goal. Though I am somewhat confused as I have seen Scylence labeled hubs for sale. Maybe these are the redesigned Scylence models?

RussellS
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

bespoke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm
but they have no problem launching a product, immediately making the current stuff obsolete
Wow. I've always known the people on this forum are "different" from normal bicyclists. Bu to think they believe anything not the latest and greatest is instantly "obsolete" is a bit much. I have heard that teenage girls act similar. They must have only the newest chic, fancy clothes and shoes and jewelry and phone, etc. All the girls without the newest are uncool and out of the club. To think that "grown" men act the exact same way as teenage girls is rather humorous. Please don't think I am criticizing or stereotyping teenage girls. I know several and they are wonderful.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

RussellS wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:50 pm
bespoke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm
but they have no problem launching a product, immediately making the current stuff obsolete
Wow. I've always known the people on this forum are "different" from normal bicyclists. Bu to think they believe anything not the latest and greatest is instantly "obsolete" is a bit much. I have heard that teenage girls act similar. They must have only the newest chic, fancy clothes and shoes and jewelry and phone, etc. All the girls without the newest are uncool and out of the club. To think that "grown" men act the exact same way as teenage girls is rather humorous. Please don't think I am criticizing or stereotyping teenage girls. I know several and they are wonderful.
I think there is a middle ground. People here tend to be at the extreme, they are aware of the newest products and all, others don't care at all if their stuff is from 4 generations back or not even aware of it... But talk to shop owners, when new stuff is announced, the sales of the current stuff, (now known as the old stuff) start to slow down so they are often forced to lower the prices to sell them. It's not that it becomes obsolete, but when new products are announced and all they can actually sell is not the latest and greatest, they do lose money. It's mostly true of complete bikes as they tend to have more in stock than standalone groupsets but still.

I have taken advantage of that in many occasions! :thumbup:

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:08 pm
I believe the reason they had to redesign the cranks was the finishing. After the factory fire they didn't have the capacity to manufacture the original finish in great enough quantity to bring to market.
But if that was the case, why has the redesign still not given them the capacity to bring anything to market? XTR M9100 series cranks are currently showing as pre-order with an expected date of the end of July.

Ritxis
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

In basic believe it seems that there is no news for road...........yes for gravel bikes....name of groupset; GRX

For this spring/summer

Nefarious86
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Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
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by Nefarious86


adilosnave wrote: Something else to consider about whatever Shimano releases next is that the Olympics are in Tokyo next year and I"m sure they want to take advantage of the media presence. Maybe not enough to move around product launches though.

As for Shimano not getting the product to customer's hands in a timely manner, I do believe they had a massive factory fire and the Sylence hubs couldn't be 100% trusted over the long-haul. Personally, I'd rather them pull back a product for more testing and development if they foresee issues than companies sending out product that's not been fully hashed out (Tesla!!!!, SRAM's hydro brake debacle and anything related to front derailleurs come to mind.) Shimano plays it safe.
100% this, Shimano don't Beta test on consumers and they clearly chose to drop the hubs in favor of preventing the compromised components being put to market.

The fire wiped put a huge chunk of production but M9100 cranks do exist ;)Image

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ooo
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Shimano is targeting new dura-ace release for Tokyo 2020 Olympics
'

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4179
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

bespoke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm
One of the reasons the AXS launch was so good was you had a global launch on Day 1 and by Day 3 OEM bikes were shipping with the stuff.....

It was better than that. Complete bikes were shipped out to the brands a couple weeks in advance of the launch, and shops took delivery several days before.

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:35 pm
The fire wiped put a huge chunk of production but M9100 cranks do exist ;)Image
I can't see an M9100 crank in that photo?

That S-Works looks like it has the stopgap MT900 on it that they're producing while they get M9100 redesigned, but that's as close as it gets as far as I can see with that resolution.

petromyzon
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

Bespoke is a shop - I think you too would get aggravated if a company devalued stock you are holding but were then unable to supply the new stuff.
Yes I completely get the point that DA9100 will not suddenly become crap when 9200 is announced.

by Weenie


savechief
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:36 am

by savechief

I can't see an M9100 crank in that photo?

That S-Works looks like it has the stopgap MT900 on it that they're producing while they get M9100 redesigned, but that's as close as it gets as far as I can see with that resolution.
Also agree that those are not the intended FC-M9100 cranks, but instead the stop-gap FC-MT900 cranks (which to me look like new 12-speed XT cranks without the XT logo):
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos- ... lable.html
Time VXRS Ulteam (7.16 kg)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120268

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