Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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RDY
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by RDY

If you want the lightest cassette I think it's very unlikely you'll be using a Shimano one. Their road cassettes haven't been light for ages. Doubt 9200 changes that.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

The problem is that anything that is lighter (with the possible exception of the Sram 1190) won't shift as nicely as Shimano's. Who wants a light cassette that shifts like crap? I'm running the Ultegra 11-32 at the moment. I'm a little hesitant to use the Sram 1190 as my current cassette shifts nicely. Once 9200 come out what possible alternatives are there that are lighter than the 9200 and shift just as well? The Uno 11-speed cassettes are light but there is a video on YouTube showing the cassette falling apart.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

ryanw wrote:Ultegra - Yes
Dura-Ace - No (Microspline)
Not according to what we’ve been told in the UK. New wheels will only take 12 speed cassettes but 12 speed will fit on older bodies.


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LRB23
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by LRB23

I popped into my LBS yesterday and we got chatting about the next gen Dura Ace. I asked him if he knew of anything and he showed me an undercover video presentation of the new Dura Ace. It was obviously not supposed to be recorded, was in French and I had to get the dealer to translate but what I could make out was:

- Rear derailleur shifts 56% faster than current DA.
- Front derailleur shifts 42% faster.
- Semi wireless. Rear and front derailleur physically connected to the battery. Shifters are wireless.
- Battery duration improved by 1.5-2 times.
- LED charge indicator on the brake/gear shifter.
- Redesigned shifters with new ergonomics.
- Somewhere in the region of 160g lighter than current DA. I couldn’t remember which.
- No mechanical version. This wasn’t in the presentation but something he mentioned.

Due to worldwide supply constraints the group sets will only ship on complete bikes initially. It will be extremely difficult if not impossible to purchase the group set separately as things currently stand. He has been told bikes will begin to ship with the new DA in September/October.

The improved shift speed is really impressive. The weight reduction is welcomed. I’m still not sure on the new design looks but maybe it will grow on me in time.


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Dov
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by Dov

I can't fathom a no mechanical move from Shimano. Leaves a huge hole between Ultegra at £999 and Dura Ace at £3,200

Would be a pretty bizarre diecison for them to take and opens them up to all sorts of unncessary threats from SRAM/Campagnolo
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RDY
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by RDY

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:14 am
The problem is that anything that is lighter (with the possible exception of the Sram 1190) won't shift as nicely as Shimano's. Who wants a light cassette that shifts like crap? I'm running the Ultegra 11-32 at the moment. I'm a little hesitant to use the Sram 1190 as my current cassette shifts nicely. Once 9200 come out what possible alternatives are there that are lighter than the 9200 and shift just as well? The Uno 11-speed cassettes are light but there is a video on YouTube showing the cassette falling apart.

There's a difference between shifting like crap and not shifting quite as well as Shimano. A guy who went to the same mechanic as me had an edco mixed with Ultegra Di2 derailleurs and an XTR 12s chain. It was probably the smoothest, quietest setup I've ever seen. Another example had DA mechanical with an 1190, marginally more noise than my Ultegra cassette, but really marginal. Shifting was fine. I've tried ZTTO's most expensive monoblock in 11-28. Noise no greater than Ultegra and shifting seemed fine. But had to remove it as moved somewhere with serious inclines and need the 32. If they did a 30 or 32 in that SKU I'd use it for sure.

RDY
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by RDY

Dov wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:42 am
I can't fathom a no mechanical move from Shimano. Leaves a huge hole between Ultegra at £999 and Dura Ace at £3,200

Would be a pretty bizarre diecison for them to take and opens them up to all sorts of unncessary threats from SRAM/Campagnolo
There won't be many Ultegra Di2 bikes sold below the €5000 mark going forward. And the chances of getting hold of an 8200 £1000 Ultegra Di2 gruppo are nil. They'll be like unicorn shit, and priced accordingly.

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by Cemicar

LRB23 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:51 am
- Somewhere in the region of 160g lighter than current DA. I couldn’t remember which.
Seems like Shimano is dropping SM-RT900 and now both DA and XTR share the same rotor. I suspect this is where 30g out of 160g comes from.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Andecdotal, but there are virtually no mech Dura-Ace users in my circles. It’s largely an even three-way split between mech Ultegra, UDi2 and DA Di2 as far as Shimano users are concerned.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

Dura ace 9100 mechanical was already a dead gruppo when it came out, there is zero demand for a mechanical dura ace gruppo

Nickldn
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by Nickldn

robbosmans wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:21 am
Dura ace 9100 mechanical was already a dead gruppo when it came out, there is zero demand for a mechanical dura ace gruppo
Have to say this makes sense, it's difficult to see the benefits of mechanical DA 9100 over Ultegra in the current 11s generation. Hell, it's kind of hard to see the benefits of Ultegra over 105 apart from some weight and *bling*.

I guess mechanical DA 9100 sales reflect that.

Besides those who really want top of the range mechanical still have Campy SR to fall back on.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

Of the last 50 bikes I've worked on, maybe 10% have been mech, and of those, one was 9000 and one 9100.
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pmprego
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by pmprego

ryanw wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:35 pm
Of the last 50 bikes I've worked on, maybe 10% have been mech, and of those, one was 9000 and one 9100.
Clearly big enough market to produce tooling, training, etc. :unbelievable:

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by JMeinholdt

robbosmans wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:21 am
Dura ace 9100 mechanical was already a dead gruppo when it came out, there is zero demand for a mechanical dura ace gruppo
When I bought my Wilier, I had the choice between one spec'd with 9100 mechanical and one with 6870 Ultegra Di2. There was virtually no difference in price. Ultegra Di2, even being a generation older, was the clear choice.

Honestly, everything Ultegra level and above should be Di2 only, IMO. I feel like there's a bunch of "mechanical makes me feel more in tune with my bike" people out there who spout that line because they've never had the opportunity to own a Di2 (or etap or EPS) bike and once they do, that mentality is gone and they won't go back to mechanical.
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Stueys
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by Stueys

Some of the top end bikes are starting to make the move to electronic only. If the death of mechanical DA isn't this iteration it's likely to be soon

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