Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Wireless fishing reels?!! Now that would be a development truly worthy of “once every 30 years” status.
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by Weenie



TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

XCProMD wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:36 pm

What’s about to be launched is neither DA nor Ultegra.
XT M8100 then...

madik
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:44 pm

by madik

They might announce gravel stuff this time around. There were some rumors about it lately. Standalone gravel groupset or just some parts for ultegra, 105 and DA. Some new rear derraillers with a clutch and new subcompact 2x cranksets and 1x cranksets.

Quite doubt it that it would be 12speed components for 105 or ultegra. So if its going to be 12 speed its much likely to be a brand new groupset with a new name. Something like their MTB groupsets spinoff "Saint" (which i never understands what is it good for tbh..)

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

madik wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:58 pm
They might announce gravel stuff this time around. There were some rumors about it lately. Standalone gravel groupset or just some parts for ultegra, 105 and DA. Some new rear derraillers with a clutch and new subcompact 2x cranksets and 1x cranksets.
They've only recently released the Ultegra RX clutch rear mechs, without much fanfare. A big launch for more gravel componentry doesn't make sense.
Quite doubt it that it would be 12speed components for 105 or ultegra. So if its going to be 12 speed its much likely to be a brand new groupset with a new name. Something like their MTB groupsets spinoff "Saint" (which i never understands what is it good for tbh..)
Of course it's not 12 speed 105 or Ultegra. That would be completely mental. As for a spinoff 12 speed road groupset that isn't a new DA and would sit alongside existing 11sp product lines... that's an extremely convoluted scenario!

The timing makes perfect sense for new XT and/or XTR DI2. Why would it be any more complicated than that?

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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

Or some e-bike or commuting stuff most of us don't care much about. I don't think there will be 12 speed road groups (I include gravel in road) before the next Dura-Ace.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Dan Gerous wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:26 am
Or some e-bike or commuting stuff most of us don't care much about. I don't think there will be 12 speed road groups (I include gravel in road) before the next Dura-Ace.

This is another sore spot. Metrea was shown in early 2016, made available a year later to zero fanfare. Nobody is equipping it as OE and Shimano seemingly doesn't care.

youngs_modulus
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Location: Portland, OR USA

by youngs_modulus

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:54 pm
In the patents for the physical designs of the eTap RD and FD, the description includes directly attaching batteries to the structural members.
I don’t doubt that SRAM’s protected IP could make it hard for Shimano to offer wireless Di2, but can you provide a link to the actual patents that you say are directly blocking?

SRAM’s patents may have mentioned attaching batteries to derailleurs in the background sections, but if that’s the case, it means nothing. The claims are the only things that matter; the background section is only there to support the claims. It would be hard to claim a battery attached to the device it powers and still pass the obviousness test.

Again, SRAM’s patent may somehow make it hard for Shimano to sell wireless derailleurs, but SRAM doesn’t own the concept of putting batteries on or in electrically powered devices.

robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Is there anything in the SRAM patent stopping Shimano (or even Campy for that matter) from having wireless shifters, but wired everything else?

For me this is the best of both worlds - a super clean front end and no need to run cables from the front to back of the bike, with an extra long life internal seatpost mounted battery servicing the derailleur(s).

TheRich
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

robertbb wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:16 am
Is there anything in the SRAM patent stopping Shimano (or even Campy for that matter) from having wireless shifters, but wired everything else?

For me this is the best of both worlds - a super clean front end and no need to run cables from the front to back of the bike, with an extra long life internal seatpost mounted battery servicing the derailleur(s).
Does your bike not have brakes?

Is it that hard to tape or shrink wrap wires to cables/hoses?

RussellS
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

Calnago wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:44 pm
Wireless fishing reels?!! Now that would be a development truly worthy of “once every 30 years” status.
How would wireless fishing reels work? Does wireless mean you get rid of the fishing line (wire?) so you would shoot the fish with darts? Or bullets? (Are all guns considered wireless fishing reels?) Or does it mean you don't have to manually wind up the reel with your hands? If that is all, then it should be real easy to make a wireless fishing reel. Just put a simple, cheap battery powered motor into the reel. And two buttons by the handle to tell the motor which direction to spin. You could probably contact a dozen Chinese companies and pay them to make you a wireless fishing reel in a month's time. Its not too complicated if you mean my second suggestion. Heck you might be able to go to Harbor Freight and buy a few things and cobble them together to make a wireless fishing reel.

robertbb
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Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

TheRich wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:53 am
robertbb wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:16 am
Is there anything in the SRAM patent stopping Shimano (or even Campy for that matter) from having wireless shifters, but wired everything else?

For me this is the best of both worlds - a super clean front end and no need to run cables from the front to back of the bike, with an extra long life internal seatpost mounted battery servicing the derailleur(s).
Does your bike not have brakes?

Is it that hard to tape or shrink wrap wires to cables/hoses?
The need for brake cables is implied/obvious, but thanks for pulling me up on my grammatical oversight. Please continue to do so :lol:

Is it hard to shrink wrap wires? No. Would I prefer not to? Yes.

youngs_modulus
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Portland, OR USA

by youngs_modulus

robertbb wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:16 am
Is there anything in the SRAM patent stopping Shimano (or even Campy for that matter) from having wireless shifters, but wired everything else?
I believe you’ve basically described how the FSA wireless shifting system works, so no, there’s nothing in SRAM’s protected IP stopping Shimano from implementing something similar.

bas
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:58 am

by bas

I have a friend who runs a component manufacturer, he's currently in Taipei.
There is no 12 speed Dura Ace coming anytime soon according to him. I asked him as I'm buying a new bike!

adilosnave
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:10 pm

by adilosnave

bas wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:07 am
I have a friend who runs a component manufacturer, he's currently in Taipei.
There is no 12 speed Dura Ace coming anytime soon according to him. I asked him as I'm buying a new bike!
I'd take that with a grain of salt. Shimano's NDA is terrifying. I don't care if you have the actual CAD models already down-loaded and are busy building bikes with the upcoming parts, you say NOTHING!!! Not unless you don't care about losing your career and house.

Seriously, you don't mess with them when it comes to talking about new product until it's been released. They will hunt you down. Remember when that video surfaced a few years back of DA 9100? I'm pretty sure they found that person and pressed charges for leaking it to the press.

by Weenie


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