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Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:35 am
by Karvalo
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:32 am
I get the complaint. There’s pretty much no drawback in designing XDR from the get-go and just supplying a 1.8mm spacer.
The drawback is the hub physically not fitting on wheels designed for a tradtional MTB freehub width. Why would SRAM have wanted to create that entry barrier into 1x11 upgrades? Flip it around, what would be the benefit of XD and XDR being the same? Are many people out there wanting to put road AXS cassettes on their MTB wheels?

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:35 am
by Weenie

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:50 am
by Discodan
Karvalo wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:32 am
I get the complaint. There’s pretty much no drawback in designing XDR from the get-go and just supplying a 1.8mm spacer.
The drawback is the hub physically not fitting on wheels designed for a tradtional MTB freehub width. Why would SRAM have wanted to create that entry barrier into 1x11 upgrades? Flip it around, what would be the benefit of XD and XDR being the same? Are many people out there wanting to put road AXS cassettes on their MTB wheels?
It’s becoming a lot more common now. With gravel bikes that can swap 700c and 650b wheels it becomes a real PITA when there’s another hub standard in play. I’ve put my roadie wheels onto my gravel bike with a cassette swap and likewise dropped my MTB wheels onto it at times. Couldn’t do that if they had different hub standards, I’d need to have a spare set of 650b wheels just dedicated to the gravel bike


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Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:17 pm
by Alfus
New PM is not @ the pedals..

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:14 pm
by ipenguinking
In this article Bike Radar published couple day ago the author predicts the next gen DA will have 12s and use Micro Spline freehub like the latest XTR. While I can understand that Shimano wants to keep up with Campy and Sram by offering 12s. However I'm not sure if Shimano needs Micro Spline for 10t for road which means smaller chainrings and totally different gearing. It's hard for me to believe Shimano will go away from 53/39 for pros and 52/36 50/34 for everyone else. I sincerely hope Shimano will go with the same route as Campy who simply adds another cog to the existing freehub.

What's your take?

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:22 pm
by liam7020
I'm hoping the next DA will be 12 speed, wireless, won't require any changes to the hub, little or no increase in weight, a decent selection of cassette ratios and be reasonably attractive aesthetically. Too much to ask?

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:19 am
by saba
There's no reason (except greed) why 11-speed DI2 shifters can't work with 12- or 13- or whatever speed. Similarly, the derailleur should just work when mounted to 12- or 13- or whatever speeds since the motor knows how far to move the chain across.

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:30 am
by spdntrxi
saba wrote:There's no reason (except greed) why 11-speed DI2 shifters can't work with 12- or 13- or whatever speed. Similarly, the derailleur should just work when mounted to 12- or 13- or whatever speeds since the motor knows how far to move the chain across.
I agree but see SRAM and Campy... so don’t expect any different

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:52 am
by Alfus
wireless, 12Spd, 10 small cog, only one button on each lever, etc...

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300110


Image

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:21 pm
by Broady
Gotta think 10000 is gonna be a big one, launch of wireless I'd imagine. Some type of inbuilt charging (jockey wheel?) would be a game changer too.

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:36 pm
by Ritxis
Alfus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:52 am
wireless, 12Spd, 10 small cog, only one button on each lever, etc...

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300110


Image
there are patents after that, with double push button http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300092

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:42 pm
by Ritxis
wire.png
wire1.jpg
although these recently published patents are only ideas that do not see the light

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:48 pm
by schlafen
Not sure how you are looking at the patent but that looks wired to me

I haven't read through yet, so there's that

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Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:23 pm
by jkonst
schlafen wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:48 pm
Not sure how you are looking at the patent but that looks wired to me

I haven't read through yet, so there's that

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The patent does state "wireless" (see page 29).

As an aside, I haven't read many patents, but I'm surprised how many typos made it into this!

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:46 pm
by spartan
10t is USELESS for road riding. i have 11 speed 11-30 with a 52/36 and do not see the need for a extra cog in either end of the cluster. shimano should concentrate on eliminating disc brake rub + reducing weight of the system. wireless is great for oem's. ease of building the bikes in a production line. for the customer more point s of failure in the drivetrain. btw sram axs is SH**. had a chance to play with force. heavy ugly and slow shifting . a giant step backwards vs mechanical sram.

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:46 pm
by Weenie

Re: Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:28 pm
by schlafen
spartan wrote:10t is USELESS for road riding. i have 11 speed 11-30 with a 52/36 and do not see the need for a extra cog in either end of the cluster. shimano should concentrate on eliminating disc brake rub + reducing weight of the system. wireless is great for oem's. ease of building the bikes in a production line. for the customer more point s of failure in the drivetrain. btw sram axs is SH**. had a chance to play with force. heavy ugly and slow shifting . a giant step backwards vs mechanical sram.
Agreed.

Received my AXS groupset a while ago. Rode for roughly 1000 miles.

Sold it.

Back to mechanical Dura Ace on my ti bike. Mechanical Force 22 on my banger steel bike.

I'm going to stay mechanocal until Shimano puts out the wireless goodies.

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