Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:32 am
I get the complaint. There’s pretty much no drawback in designing XDR from the get-go and just supplying a 1.8mm spacer.
The drawback is the hub physically not fitting on wheels designed for a tradtional MTB freehub width. Why would SRAM have wanted to create that entry barrier into 1x11 upgrades? Flip it around, what would be the benefit of XD and XDR being the same? Are many people out there wanting to put road AXS cassettes on their MTB wheels?

by Weenie


Discodan
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Karvalo wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:32 am
I get the complaint. There’s pretty much no drawback in designing XDR from the get-go and just supplying a 1.8mm spacer.
The drawback is the hub physically not fitting on wheels designed for a tradtional MTB freehub width. Why would SRAM have wanted to create that entry barrier into 1x11 upgrades? Flip it around, what would be the benefit of XD and XDR being the same? Are many people out there wanting to put road AXS cassettes on their MTB wheels?
It’s becoming a lot more common now. With gravel bikes that can swap 700c and 650b wheels it becomes a real PITA when there’s another hub standard in play. I’ve put my roadie wheels onto my gravel bike with a cassette swap and likewise dropped my MTB wheels onto it at times. Couldn’t do that if they had different hub standards, I’d need to have a spare set of 650b wheels just dedicated to the gravel bike


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Alfus
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:34 pm

by Alfus

New PM is not @ the pedals..

ipenguinking
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal

by ipenguinking

In this article Bike Radar published couple day ago the author predicts the next gen DA will have 12s and use Micro Spline freehub like the latest XTR. While I can understand that Shimano wants to keep up with Campy and Sram by offering 12s. However I'm not sure if Shimano needs Micro Spline for 10t for road which means smaller chainrings and totally different gearing. It's hard for me to believe Shimano will go away from 53/39 for pros and 52/36 50/34 for everyone else. I sincerely hope Shimano will go with the same route as Campy who simply adds another cog to the existing freehub.

What's your take?

liam7020
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

I'm hoping the next DA will be 12 speed, wireless, won't require any changes to the hub, little or no increase in weight, a decent selection of cassette ratios and be reasonably attractive aesthetically. Too much to ask?
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

saba
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:40 am

by saba

There's no reason (except greed) why 11-speed DI2 shifters can't work with 12- or 13- or whatever speed. Similarly, the derailleur should just work when mounted to 12- or 13- or whatever speeds since the motor knows how far to move the chain across.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

saba wrote:There's no reason (except greed) why 11-speed DI2 shifters can't work with 12- or 13- or whatever speed. Similarly, the derailleur should just work when mounted to 12- or 13- or whatever speeds since the motor knows how far to move the chain across.
I agree but see SRAM and Campy... so don’t expect any different

Alfus
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:34 pm

by Alfus

wireless, 12Spd, 10 small cog, only one button on each lever, etc...

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300110


Image

Broady
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

Gotta think 10000 is gonna be a big one, launch of wireless I'd imagine. Some type of inbuilt charging (jockey wheel?) would be a game changer too.

Ritxis
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

Alfus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:52 am
wireless, 12Spd, 10 small cog, only one button on each lever, etc...

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300110


Image
there are patents after that, with double push button http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0& ... 0190300092

Ritxis
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

wire.png
wire1.jpg
although these recently published patents are only ideas that do not see the light

schlafen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

Not sure how you are looking at the patent but that looks wired to me

I haven't read through yet, so there's that

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jkonst
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:42 pm

by jkonst

schlafen wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:48 pm
Not sure how you are looking at the patent but that looks wired to me

I haven't read through yet, so there's that

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The patent does state "wireless" (see page 29).

As an aside, I haven't read many patents, but I'm surprised how many typos made it into this!

spartan
Posts: 1286
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

10t is USELESS for road riding. i have 11 speed 11-30 with a 52/36 and do not see the need for a extra cog in either end of the cluster. shimano should concentrate on eliminating disc brake rub + reducing weight of the system. wireless is great for oem's. ease of building the bikes in a production line. for the customer more point s of failure in the drivetrain. btw sram axs is SH**. had a chance to play with force. heavy ugly and slow shifting . a giant step backwards vs mechanical sram.
Current Rides:

2018 Madone SLR DISC DI2 9XXX
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

by Weenie


schlafen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

spartan wrote:10t is USELESS for road riding. i have 11 speed 11-30 with a 52/36 and do not see the need for a extra cog in either end of the cluster. shimano should concentrate on eliminating disc brake rub + reducing weight of the system. wireless is great for oem's. ease of building the bikes in a production line. for the customer more point s of failure in the drivetrain. btw sram axs is SH**. had a chance to play with force. heavy ugly and slow shifting . a giant step backwards vs mechanical sram.
Agreed.

Received my AXS groupset a while ago. Rode for roughly 1000 miles.

Sold it.

Back to mechanical Dura Ace on my ti bike. Mechanical Force 22 on my banger steel bike.

I'm going to stay mechanocal until Shimano puts out the wireless goodies.

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