Dura-Ace R9200

[MarshMellow]

Something as reliable as HG seems logical to retain, retained indefinitely too.

Going the route of hyper-exclusive interface, yet retaining HG capability, just seems odd and awfully bland.

As already stated, I find it hard to believe that you haven't come across a chewed up HG freehub. Just because something is what you know and like doesn't mean it's the best solution and this type of thinking stifles innovation.

PS - do you know how an Office Stapler works?

I think I've just bought in bulk 24/6 (...needed the 24/8 smh).

Can these be flattened out in order to shim a cassette? I find it hard to believe I have to be forced to keep these now, just because I ripped the box.

[JMeinholdt]

Something as reliable as HG seems logical to retain, retained indefinitely too.

Going the route of hyper-exclusive interface, yet retaining HG capability, just seems odd and awfully bland.

As already stated, I find it hard to believe that you haven't come across a chewed up HG freehub. Just because something is what you know and like doesn't mean it's the best solution and this type of thinking stifles innovation.

Creepy.

Ok then Genius - what's this hypothetical Shimano interface then, exactly the full interface upon the 12spd and for bonus points, the Ultegra 11spd wrapper? Because it sure seems like something already known and liked, yet this type of thinking stifles innovation.

Hypocrisy!!

Defensive much? I didn't like the thought of the XDR driver for AXS at first either. Now I realize it's hands down better than HG. I suppose you really wanted 126mm rear dropouts to stay too because no one would ever need more than a 7 speed cassette and you already had wheels/frames/cassettes that fit?

[MarshMellow]

Something as reliable as HG seems logical to retain, retained indefinitely too.

Going the route of hyper-exclusive interface, yet retaining HG capability, just seems odd and awfully bland.

As already stated, I find it hard to believe that you haven't come across a chewed up HG freehub. Just because something is what you know and like doesn't mean it's the best solution and this type of thinking stifles innovation.

Creepy.

Ok then Genius - what's this hypothetical Shimano interface then, exactly the full interface upon the 12spd and for bonus points, the Ultegra 11spd wrapper? Because it sure seems like something already known and liked, yet this type of thinking stifles innovation.

Hypocrisy!!

Defensive much? I didn't like the thought of the XDR driver for AXS at first either. Now I realize it's hands down better than HG. I suppose you really wanted 126mm rear dropouts to stay too because no one would ever need more than a 7 speed cassette and you already had wheels/frames/cassettes that fit?

Next caller please.

[Gazelleer]

I doubt if Shimano will introduce yet another freehub standard. Most likely, it'll be a similar HG or newer Microspline version.

Going from the patent drawing published here I'd say the new road standard will have the same dimensions as HG but with each HG spline divided up into three separate (mini/narrow) splines.

[Gazelleer]

Going the route of hyper-exclusive interface, yet retaining HG capability, just seems odd and awfully bland.

On the contrary I find it quite commendable to go with something microspline-like while retaining HG dimensions and thus, to some extent, cross-compatibility.

HG freehubs are only reliable in steel or ti, as originally intended. Alloy HG freehubs are damaged by the sprockets.
Steel is heavy, ti is expensive and still fairly heavy. Therefore Shimano's need to develop a reliable alloy freehub.

Funny, or just odd for some odd-reason.

HG being the only freehub available, SRAM conconcts (develops if you will) a reliable cassette - RED - and, problems solved.

Seems like the cart is infront the horse now that the HG Freehub retainer is expired, no more. May be sleeping?

Yes, Shimano could no doubt develop a cassette that will not eat alloy HG freehubs. Considering SRAM Red, such a cassette will likely be much more expensive to produce than the current Shimano cassettes with several separate cogs. The cassette being a wear part, I doubt most people would want them to go there.

[MarshMellow]

On the contrary I find it quite commendable to go with something microspline-like while retaining HG dimensions and thus, to some extent,  cross-compatibility.

If, as a result, taking information being gleaned onto teh ww.internets while some farcical aquatic ceremony is also going on on teh ww.internets - then commendations (obviously) are in order.

Form follows function however, so - this being, again - hypotheticals abound, Shimano's course into the near-future - the question remains as to how it will be Shimano now decides to allow adaptation to this version of Hyper Glide Freehub.  

Yes, Shimano could no doubt develop a cassette that will not eat alloy HG freehubs. Considering SRAM Red, such a cassette will likely be much more expensive to produce than the current Shimano cassettes with several separate cogs. The cassette being a wear part, I doubt most people would want them to go there.

Indubitably.

Yet, SRAM applied for and then adhered to a version of Shimano HG Cassette production and made it work.  My first RED cassette was a fleaBay 7500km 11-26, added 8000km to that.  And, shifted great even as I relegated it to one of the Tool Chest Drawer.  Tool Steel. What it is revolving around SRAM presently is enough to cause Corinary though - high torque chainrings and high cassette gear. Uhm, Large Jockey wheel inner and outer deraileur cages for everyone... I mean, what the cluckin' actual cluck?!??




So - yeah - Shimano can do just about anything in circumstances such as this, yet - have apparently chosen to condense an HG design - which is fine.  My immediate concern is to what extent this, at least, will retain Shimano's own exclusivity and also allow bikes to stay upright regardless what shifter is clamped to the bar.

Just for yoks - recently had talks w/ a Defense Sector Supplier about costs, overhead, garbage-in, garbage-out, yada yada yada.  
Still - came away with the friggin' bicycle being a much MUCH more wasteful process to manufacture and an even more wasteful process to have sustained on an open market than low-temp Silicon Composite Bearings, Ceramics, blended Carbon Composites.

Garbage-in, Garbage-out.

A bit. (a bit bit a bit)

[Gazelleer]

What r u on?

[MarshMellow]

All the bad stuff.

Only kills the weak brain cells...

[Aeo]

What r u on?

I'm on my bike, bustin my ass 6 hours a day

[GregR]

...
I still think the answer is 34/52 up the front with an 11-25 for most UK riding. Of course going 34/30 makes sense for proper climbs / holidays in the mountains.

I get that this is an old post and the world has moved on, but I am considering going from 36-52 up front to 34-52. (11-30 on the back, 165 crankset.) (live next to the mountains)
How are people finding the FD shifts with the 34-52 combination? Running 9170.

[Stueys]

I honestly don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, it's the internet equivelent of slowing down for a car crash on the other side of the freeway

[MarshMellow]

I honestly don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, it's the internet equivelent of slowing down for a car crash on the other side of the freeway

Whaaaa??? This thread is Awesome!

Pandemic Advice - Check.

Non-Regulated Alternative forms of out-of-pocket expenses advisement - Check.

Jockey Wheels - you betcha'

Was there a Honda for sale? Did someone list a Honda Hatchback on here?? CVCC???

As soon as topic has traction for Shimano reimplementing a duration of use policy - Drugs get pushed.
...kewl.

Like, there's absoultely zero-children populating the board, let alone active on the board, and it's a freefall for all sorts of back-alley, corner-store at the strip-mall facilitation for moving product... we're all the same I guess huh?

Bikes Suck.

[pdlpsher1]

I doubt if Shimano will introduce yet another freehub standard. Most likely, it'll be a similar HG or newer Microspline version.

Going from the patent drawing published here I'd say the new road standard will have the same dimensions as HG but with each HG spline divided up into three separate (mini/narrow) splines.

Bingo! Thanks for the tip! I found the patent and you're exactly right. Here's the patent: https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0 ... %2Fshimano

The new spline pattern on the cassette has additional mini splines (female). I counted nine of them. The female mini splines won't be engaged on a 11-speed HG freehub body but will engage on the new 12-speed freehub. Hence the 12-speed cassettes will be compatible across all freehubs, and the new 12-speed freehub can only take a 12-speed cassette. Brilliant. The adoption of this new standard by Shimano also means we won't see a 10T cog on a road group anytime soon. Only time will tell which direction the next generation GRX will go. My bet is that GRX will go with Microspline in order to create a larger range for 1x applications.

The HG cassette digging into the aluminum HG freehub is caused by people not torquing the lockring to 40NM. At 40NM there's no issue whether the freehub material is aluminum or titanium.

[bananastand]

...

[raggedtrousers]

I guarantee you, there will be ZERO people upgrading to 12 speed dura ace if the interface is proprietary.
[/quote]

I'm hoping this is hyperbole, otherwise I know a few people willing to bet pretty much any sum against that...